Healing Through Humor and Cultivating Media Literacy with Clarkisha Kent

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Music.

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Welcome to Balance Black Girl. My name is Les, I'm your host,

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and I appreciate you tuning in.

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Each month on the podcast, we're diving into a certain theme.

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In February, we talked about all things intimacy, and this month our theme is book club.

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Each week, we're talking to black authors on their book release dates to give you reading inspo all month long.

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Now books have been a big part of Balance Black Girl since the beginning.

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Shortly after starting this podcast in 2018, I hosted a book club to read Becoming by Michelle Obama.

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And that ended up being the best book club because a few months later,

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when she went on her Becoming book tour, we were invited to have a private book club with her.

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So shout out to my original Balanced Black Girl Book Club members in Seattle

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back in 2018 and 2019, because that was such an amazing experience.

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And honestly, after that, it's been a little hard to top. interest in the book club naturally increased and running it just became really stressful and a lot

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of pressure for me and frankly I completely folded. I can handle pressure well in some

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instances but when it comes to like event things I fold. I've learned this about myself and book

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club sadly went away.

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However, we now have an async book club in our Geneva Community Club Balanced where we

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have monthly book club picks and a chat room to discuss the books that we're reading.

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So the book club has evolved quite a bit.

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We have a link to our Geneva group in the show notes. So join us there if you want to connect with other listeners and get some book inspo.

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Now, as I was planning podcast episodes, I noticed there were several incredible books

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written by people I admire dropping this month, March 2023.

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And I thought, let's bring these authors to the podcast and celebrate their book launches with them in real time.

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Today, I'm joined by Clarkisha Kent to celebrate the launch of her new book,

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Fat Off, Fat On, A Big Bitch Manifesto. Clarkisha is a Nigerian-American writer,

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culture critic, former columnist, and author.

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Her writing has been featured in outlets like Entertainment Weekly, Essence, Paper, BET, HuffPost,

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MTV News, The Root, and more.

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She's also the creator of The Kent Test, which we talk about in this episode,

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a media litmus test designed to evaluate the quality of representation that exists for black women

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and women of color in film and other media.

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So we talk about that test, we talk about the book, how she handled writing and recounting

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so many personal details of her life that were at times painful to recall,

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finding healing in humor,

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and of course the importance of media literacy.

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So let's get into the episode. Kwa-Kisha, welcome to Balance Black Girl,

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and happy book launch day.

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Thank you for celebrating with us. Thank you for having me on.

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I am super excited. This book has been like a decade in the making,

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So it's kind of surreal that we're like finally here today.

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Absolutely, absolutely. Your book, Fat Off, Fat On, a Big Bitch Manifesto, available today,

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at least the day this episode is being released. So I'm super honored that we're getting to

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talk to you on your book release day and that you're letting us celebrate this moment with

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you.

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I'm honored myself. I love talking to people like you, people who are plugged in. Yeah,

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I'm just excited to see where this goes, honestly.

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All right, so with the book out in the world, how are you feeling?

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As you just mentioned, it's been a decade in the making. That is a big culmination.

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How are you feeling right now? So lots of relief, especially because the last two years, three years now, right, have

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been very hectic.

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I was writing during the pandemic. I mean, it's still ongoing.

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The government likes to gaslight us, but it's still a thing, obviously.

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But like, yeah, like peak, peak us being inside, you know, the work balance kind of shift shifting.

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Like where we work, how we work all like all those changes happening.

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And I was in the middle of all that just writing, you know, it's not something I expected when

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I was picturing, you know, me writing my you know, awesome first book, novel, whatever,

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I was like, Oh, this is how I'm going to do it.

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This one will be writing this house going to come out. And none of that has been the case.

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It's not necessarily bad, but definitely like I definitely had to adjust and kind of roll with the punches.

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Initially the punches were very hard, you know, very disappointing.

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But you know, now that we're at the end of it, now that we're at book release day, you,

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know, I'm just I'm just glad we're here at this point. Yes. Despite what has happened.

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Definitely, definitely. It sounds like one of those scenarios

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where it's like expectations versus reality

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and sometimes we have a big delta between those two things.

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Exactly, it's exactly that, yeah.

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Yeah. So this month on the podcast, we're highlighting books by black authors

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at the time that they're released.

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Congratulations again, I'm really excited to kick off this series with you.

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So I would love to start off by talking about writing.

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You have been a writer for most of your life. You actually, in your book, introduce us

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to when you start writing, and you referred to writing as your escape plan.

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What has your relationship with writing been like, and how has it evolved over time?

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If I were to describe it, I'd definitely say it's like a long-term partner.

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You know, there's gonna be some ups and, I hate saying ups and downs, it sounds so cliche.

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Let's rework that. So, you know, in a long-term relationship,

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There's going to be times where it's very easy.

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Very easy going, easy flowing. You're like, y'all are a sync, everything's perfect. The

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telepathy is happening, it's going to be awesome. And then you're going to have times and years where.

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It's not as easy or it's not as straightforward. Or maybe one of you is just not having a great

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time. Maybe somebody lost a job, somebody's sick. You reverse the socks to throw either one of you

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a curve ball and then the other one has to kind of pick up the slack, so to speak.

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So that's kind of how I look at my relationship with writing.

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Some years, great years for us, other years I was like, don't talk to me.

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Because it was rough, especially when, obviously when the audience gets to chapters in the

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book where I was in California and when I was really trying to figure out how to pay

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pay certain bills and how that kind of got really dicey when it came to our relationship of writing.

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Yeah, it's very tough. Now that we're in 2023, much better place.

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Definitely on our good year, one of our good years.

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So I think that's what I would definitely call the long-term partner.

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We in for the long haul.

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Definitely. That's a good analogy. And I appreciate you just giving us a little more context to work with, with the ups and

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downs because I know when I hear somebody talk about a relationship and I hear someone

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say, oh, we had ups and downs, I'm like, who cheated?

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I'm about to say somebody cheated here. That's what that became code for.

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Probably more than once. But there's so much more to these experiences than that.

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Yeah. So I was like, let me just rewind that. Yeah.

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Absolutely. And writing a book of all things cannot be easy.

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I've never written a book, but this month I'm talking to a lot of authors and the general

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consensus is that writing a book is not easy. And I don't think writing a book of any genre is easy,

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but memoirs specifically, I feel like must be their own flavor of difficult and challenging

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from either remembering parts of your life, recalling and retelling things that are hard,

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because you do recall some painful experiences and you kind of have to relive them. How has

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has that process been for you?

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It's definitely rough, because sometimes when the thing happens to you,

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you don't understand the significance of it until many, many moons later.

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So I had a lot of that happen. In past interviews I've had in the last month,

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I was talking about how like.

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Me actually putting some of these events, traumatic events, right, unfortunately, on paper, kind of

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helped me wrap up my own like origin story for myself. So it's one of those things that when

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I was little, and these terrible things were happening, I'm like, why are they happening?

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And then once I put it on paper, I was like, okay, so I see the whole timeline here.

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Like now from like a more detached point of view, I see how every single thing happened here.

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Do I appreciate that it happened? Not really, because it was still traumatic. But now I'm able

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to see the entire cause, the effect, what happened in between, all of that. And also, gratefully,

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at the time that I was writing this, when I had a little bit more money to work with, I had a

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therapist basically on call and then I had also a psychologist on call. So basically when there were

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weeks that I got into really dark subject matter, I'd be like, okay, I call my therapist

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up and be like, hey, girls, so do you have space for me this week? Next week? What can

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we do? Because I covered a lost memory. I would like to deconstruct it with you. However

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else we can do it to make sure I don't get stuck on this memory. I can process it. I

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can feel the feelings and then move on.

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Yeah, definitely. That sounds like an incredible resource to have while doing this type of work.

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And two, recalling things that maybe happened in childhood or when you're younger as an

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adult is such an interesting experience because you have so much more context as an adult

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that you don't have as a kid.

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And so you're seeing it from an entirely different lens. Did you have that experience?

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Yeah, especially at the beginning when I'm talking about my family and I'm like.

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Because you get to the you know, the terrible awful thing that happened which I'll let the you know

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I'll let the audience read well you get there and you're like, how did we get here?

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And then now that I'm older I'm like okay.

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All right. These were the major players. This is why this happened. It was not fair that it happened

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But this is what you know, this is what all this led us to and this is the fall that happened later and that fallout

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Informed my entire, you know my entire life because I had just arrived.

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When you know the thing happened, so It's definitely is definitely interesting,

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You know while painful. I think that's why I always tell people that it you know, you have to reflect,

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I do not fundamentally understand people who just don't do self-reflection.

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I'm like, that's not a thing you experience.

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That's crazy. Because I'm doing that every 48 hours. Personally, I'm just like, okay, this is my life right now.

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That's crazy. I'm constantly reflecting, right? So I'd just be like bewildered when people were like, oh yeah, that's not, I just have

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never done that before.

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I'm like, so you just vibe out here. You just raw dog your reality.

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You don't even, it just hasn't occurred to you to maybe like think over it.

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Nope. Okay. Well, that's interesting.

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But yeah, a lot of it is putting together pieces that you didn't have access to when

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you were younger, essentially.

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Definitely. Yeah, I feel very similar to you that I, I wouldn't say that I...

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Necessarily replay things, you know, but like you said, just a reflection of like,

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okay, what just happened? Where am I at? Let's do a little pulse check with ourselves.

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And I've definitely encountered people who just don't. And in the grand scheme of things, I,

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am grateful to be a little bit more reflective. But sometimes in the moment, I'm like, I'm jealous,

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because that looks nice in this moment. Yeah, me too. Me too. Because I'm like, it takes up,

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up, take some headspace, take some brain power, it requires energy, you know, to be able to sit there and be like, okay, you.

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Know, like, let's say you just had an unpleasant interaction traffic, like so my country, so I'm happy. And you're thinking

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like, okay, was, you know, could I have handled that better?

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Was it my fault? Or did they take me to a place where I reacted like my own self? Like, you know, you start asking some

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questions, and it requires so much energy. And yes, there is an element to overthinking.

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I am a chronic over thinker. I'm a own dad. I don't think that's gonna change.

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But you know, there's an element to that. So I too be, I also am jealous.

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I be like, that doesn't, this is not something you experience, crazy.

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I know, it looks so peaceful. Well, maybe for them, maybe not for people around them,

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but that's a different thing.

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Were there any, you mentioned therapy, were there any other self-care practices that really

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supported you while you were going through the writing process?

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Excellent question. So, I had to get to the point where I was like working at my desk.

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Because you know sometimes especially you know these laptops you could you know the laptops

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are you can go anywhere i could write on the ceiling if i felt like doing it right but um for

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the book i was like i cannot do that because then i'll create this unhealthy dynamic where i'm just

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like constantly writing and that's not good for anybody even if you do like writing right so

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i was like i'm gonna commit to actually using my desk you know but i'm also gonna have like select

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hours of time to write. And let's say for some reason, I'm off my schedule for the day. That's.

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Okay. It's not the end of the world. But now at this point, it's timed. Like I can't go over like

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two hours. Like after two hours, I just gotta get up whether I'm done for a day or I'm going to go

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take a break or something. I was like, I have to break this up. Because if I try to, you know,

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power through it, I'm really going to hate it. And if I hate it, then editing it later,

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it's going to be hell, both for me and my editor. So I was like, I can't do that to either of us.

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So it's one of those things where I had to pace myself and also give myself boundaries.

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And then eventually when I got tired of like working at my desk, because that happens too,

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I was like, okay, let's go to the library. Let's, you know, have a change of scenery. Let's do that.

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I grew up on libraries, they were my safe space. So usually when I know I'm going to be doing some sort of tough project,

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whether it was writing the book or something else, that is where you'll find me

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because the atmosphere is very good.

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And, you know, I also personally feel good about it because, you know,

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I left the house active elsewhere, but it's also like productive quotations.

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But still, I feel like the past few years specifically, we cannot like overemphasize how much leaving the house can just reset you mentally. It just feels,

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feels good when we haven't done it in a while. Yeah.

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Yeah, I've definitely been up in the house because I'm like, listen, I'm disabled. I'm compromised.

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I can't be out here willy nilly. That's just what it is. I've accepted that. But you know,

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there are little things that I can do to like, like you mentioned, reset my space so I'm not

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like completely cooped up in the house. And the library is one of them. And you know, thankfully,

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the library, you know, knows that we don't want to be on top of each other, right? So they have

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ample spaces where you can go.

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Um, those, but you know, those nice back rooms where they have the large like

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table and you can just go in there by yourself and write and be at peace.

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I love stuff like that.

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So, you know, if y'all listening, support your local library.

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Okay. Yes. Support your, cause they need money. Okay. Support them.

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Support them so that the de-Santis of the world can't take them down. Okay.

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Please, please. and thank you.

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Maybe that's a good like, kind of action item for everybody since our theme this this month is like books is hit up the library.

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Support your local I've been telling as ever so often my followers, especially on Twitter, like, go support your

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local library. Like they really need the funding right now.

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What's his face? Eric Adams in New York, like I don't remember the exact headline, but he's really trying to suck the

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library budget dry. Like that man is a super villain. So I need, I need my homies up there

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to like rally around the libraries because you know, it's one of the last few public goods,

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that we have in general, because you know, Congress is raiding social security again now,

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you know. So libraries are kind of like our last state as a, you know, as a public good.

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Because even, you know, even the parks stuff is happening with the parks too.

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So I just want people to be plugged in.

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I don't want what happened with let's say pay phones.

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And cell phones to Apple libraries, you know, because when you go out now, you can't find no

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damn pay phone. It's not really a thing anymore. It's important for us as a society to have like

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publicly accessible services and goods and a library is that. So get a library card,

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borrow a book, volunteer. I don't care what you got to do. Just help your local library.

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Oh my goodness. Could not agree more. And even thinking about the potential consequences of

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of people no longer having access to books and media in that way, because libraries are so much more than books.

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They're subscriptions and music and like so much reputable information

00:18:35.307 --> 00:18:37.347
through libraries is how it's accessible for people.

00:18:37.347 --> 00:18:41.667
So the idea of that not being accessible, thinking about the intention behind that

00:18:41.667 --> 00:18:44.167
is so sinister and scary.

00:18:44.387 --> 00:18:51.867
Yes, yes, it's very evil. It's very, very evil. their direball, super villain behavior.

00:18:51.867 --> 00:18:58.957
So I'm like, even if you aren't an avid reader, movie watcher, don't matter, like support your local library.

00:18:59.191 --> 00:19:05.097
Like this, like you said, the ramifications, if God forbid, libraries just go down,

00:19:05.627 --> 00:19:07.897
people are talking about, oh, people don't read now.

00:19:09.067 --> 00:19:13.514
It's gonna be very ugly. Very, very ugly.

00:19:14.081 --> 00:19:21.467
So yeah, I know personally, You know, when my money is finally right, I'm going to see if I can just personally

00:19:21.467 --> 00:19:27.135
start donating to certain libraries because, you know, it's nice to help them non-monetarily.

00:19:27.427 --> 00:19:33.562
But at the end of the day, we live in a capitalist society. So if I can get you some money, I'm going to try.

00:19:34.267 --> 00:19:43.787
For sure. For sure. I love that. Relating back to your book a little bit and kind of back to what we're talking about earlier,

00:19:43.787 --> 00:19:47.011
the nature of the memoir genre specifically.

00:19:47.387 --> 00:19:55.167
You mentioned inviting us straight into your business, which is not an easy thing to do.

00:19:55.167 --> 00:20:00.722
How did you prepare to invite us all into your business? And how does it feel to invite a bunch of people,

00:20:01.055 --> 00:20:04.989
strangers anywhere into your business in that way?

00:20:05.430 --> 00:20:09.987
Yeah, it was definitely uncomfortable. Like there's no reason to lie about that.

00:20:09.987 --> 00:20:12.827
You know, cause people know me for sure.

00:20:12.827 --> 00:20:17.205
Like I've shared some very personal things online. I don't have no issue with that

00:20:17.427 --> 00:20:23.007
So I'm like, let's see if you're part of that story You should have acted better if you didn't want that out there, right?

00:20:23.462 --> 00:20:28.413
So I don't have issues with that but it's one of those things like those things have obviously been curated and

00:20:28.836 --> 00:20:33.463
That's not to say that the book hasn't either right because I don't tell all the stories of my life in that one book,

00:20:34.111 --> 00:20:39.867
But for the stuff I already shared online You know is is definitely stuff that I was already like prepared to talk about,

00:20:40.530 --> 00:20:44.410
versus like the memoir where like as you saw there were some other things where,

00:20:44.907 --> 00:20:47.003
I was like, okay, I really have to like.

00:20:47.966 --> 00:20:54.136
Gear myself up to even write about this. So definitely nerve wracking. Because while I've

00:20:54.136 --> 00:21:00.696
already shared some, you know, personal things online, I'm still extremely private. Like, you

00:21:00.696 --> 00:21:07.496
know, people prior to this book only knew what I told them, you know? So with the book, it's

00:21:07.496 --> 00:21:11.576
definitely going to be, you know, further than that. Because now I'm telling you things that

00:21:11.576 --> 00:21:16.755
you just had no idea about, period. Even if you did know me, like I've had some of my friends call

00:21:17.115 --> 00:21:19.896
call me up like, man, I didn't know all this shit about it.

00:21:19.896 --> 00:21:26.616
And I'm like, yeah, cause I don't talk about it like that. So it's definitely difficult,

00:21:26.616 --> 00:21:30.336
but you know, the good thing about a memoir versus like a biography, right?

00:21:30.336 --> 00:21:35.057
Is that, you know, you really can curate a memoir. Like you can have a central,

00:21:35.176 --> 00:21:36.443
like you mentioned a central theme.

00:21:36.936 --> 00:21:45.096
Maybe it's a certain time period, whatever have you, but that's probably the genre of being a memoir.

00:21:45.247 --> 00:21:49.776
That's probably what definitely helped me kind of get over the whole telling people

00:21:49.776 --> 00:21:53.776
my business. Absolutely.

00:21:54.016 --> 00:22:00.916
And I think what is so beautiful about that and the vulnerability of it is just how it

00:22:00.916 --> 00:22:04.776
gives other people a chance to connect with you and to connect with your story and to

00:22:04.776 --> 00:22:07.240
see elements of themselves in your story.

00:22:07.456 --> 00:22:11.309
They have had their own experiences and thought maybe they were the only ones to go through

00:22:11.456 --> 00:22:17.316
something and realize, wow, I'm not alone in this and that ability to connect to it.

00:22:17.316 --> 00:22:20.194
There's just so much power in that and in sharing that.

00:22:20.316 --> 00:22:25.217
I agree. I know, you know, especially online, there has to be a balance, right?

00:22:25.556 --> 00:22:30.236
Like obviously if you're into public shame, I'd be like more proud to you, but sometimes

00:22:30.236 --> 00:22:33.400
people don't need to know everything about you, you know, sometimes.

00:22:33.636 --> 00:22:38.196
But then on the flip side of that, you know, sometimes like you mentioned, just sharing,

00:22:38.196 --> 00:22:44.996
know maybe that one or two embarrassing story will like help someone else on the other side like oh.

00:22:45.797 --> 00:22:52.530
Someone else also did this awkward ass thing, you know, and the world didn't end, right?

00:22:52.787 --> 00:22:56.207
So you know, then the world doesn't have to end for me.

00:22:56.207 --> 00:23:00.407
You know, like I said, I tried to strike that balance because I don't want everybody to

00:23:00.407 --> 00:23:06.412
know everything, but you know, something's okay. Totally. Yeah, yeah.

00:23:06.583 --> 00:23:12.067
I completely agree. And I think that there's also too part of that balance or at least something that I

00:23:12.067 --> 00:23:15.307
I think about when I decide, okay, what am I gonna share versus not?

00:23:15.307 --> 00:23:19.587
Is I like sharing things after I've had a chance to kind of process it. Yes.

00:23:20.095 --> 00:23:22.907
Even if I'm not quote unquote over it, because for a lot of things in life, it's like we

00:23:22.907 --> 00:23:24.587
don't get over these things.

00:23:24.875 --> 00:23:29.782
We understand, we accept it, you know, we can move forward.

00:23:30.107 --> 00:23:33.087
But I'm like, okay, I'm comfortable with sharing things when I had a little bit of time to

00:23:33.087 --> 00:23:38.667
process where maybe I'm not like so deeply in the feel of it, where I'm speaking more

00:23:38.667 --> 00:23:44.667
so from that than what happened and can share a little bit of the takeaways of, okay, here's

00:23:44.667 --> 00:23:49.627
what happened and here's what I've learned. That's been kind of my gauge for deciding what to share,

00:23:49.627 --> 00:23:54.507
but sometimes, I don't know, we just share. Sometimes we just be sharing too.

00:23:54.507 --> 00:23:59.714
Because we feel compelled or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

00:23:59.867 --> 00:24:08.842
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00:26:04.845 --> 00:26:10.925
Something else that you do really beautifully is that you do tell these stories, even the

00:26:10.925 --> 00:26:18.349
the ones that are hard with a healthy side of humor. And I wanna make sure I emphasize that.

00:26:18.745 --> 00:26:26.305
How has humor been a source of healing for you? I love humor personally because.

00:26:27.865 --> 00:26:31.945
While it is a coping mechanism, right, one of the more popular ones,

00:26:31.945 --> 00:26:38.712
I just think for me personally, it gives me enough space to detach from the event,

00:26:39.171 --> 00:26:45.665
um, the story, whatever trauma and kind of give myself a second to really process it.

00:26:46.409 --> 00:26:50.225
You know, I know it can be annoying to some like, oh, you, you know, you make a joke out of

00:26:50.225 --> 00:26:55.790
everything, you know, it can be annoying to some. But for me, you know, it's absolutely required

00:26:56.041 --> 00:27:04.785
in terms of like beginning the processing aspect of things. Um, it may not be convenient for others,

00:27:04.785 --> 00:27:10.436
But for me, like, I really need that pause to be like, okay, this is obviously something terrible.

00:27:10.705 --> 00:27:13.902
Let me laugh about it and then get ready to really think about it.

00:27:14.145 --> 00:27:16.785
So that was kind of my thing.

00:27:16.785 --> 00:27:21.345
And it's something I wanted to make sure the book adopted as well.

00:27:21.345 --> 00:27:25.305
Because as you mentioned, like this, there's some really dark shit in there.

00:27:25.305 --> 00:27:28.825
And you know, for the standard person, they're not going to be ready to read that on like

00:27:28.825 --> 00:27:32.105
a random, I don't know, Tuesday at 12pm.

00:27:32.465 --> 00:27:41.965
You know, they're not prepared for that. So by kind of like slipping in some humor there, it kind of softens the really dark

00:27:41.965 --> 00:27:44.348
edges of whatever is being talked about.

00:27:44.505 --> 00:27:49.405
So then you can be like, okay, yes, this is a terrible thing I'm reading about, but because

00:27:49.405 --> 00:27:51.005
I've been eased into it.

00:27:52.099 --> 00:28:21.949
Now I can like properly receive it. So that was kind of my goal. Because you know, it is important to talk about these tough things. But you also have to try to be sensitive about some of this stuff. Because like I'm for example, there's gonna be survivors of the things that I talked about that are reading this book. So I don't want to just like throw it at them. I want to be like, hey, so this thing is kind of terrible. But you know, let's let's have a talk first before I tell you the thing. So those are what you know, the kind of the jokes and the clips are

00:28:21.949 --> 00:28:29.789
Yeah, definitely. And it almost feels like the humorous aspects or the humorous tone almost is

00:28:29.789 --> 00:28:34.149
like a little like a break to catch your breath and be like, okay, and continue.

00:28:34.778 --> 00:28:43.669
Yeah, that's exactly that, yeah. Which sometimes we need just to, as you said, almost help us process things a bit more. And

00:28:43.669 --> 00:28:50.149
I think sometimes it can make that information feel a little bit more accessible as well.

00:28:50.149 --> 00:28:56.978
I agree. I agree. You know, you can do a lot with salt, but you can do even more with sugar, you know?

00:28:57.554 --> 00:28:58.022
Exactly.

00:28:58.968 --> 00:29:05.309
Yeah. Something else that I appreciate is that a lot of what you talk about has themes talking

00:29:05.309 --> 00:29:10.256
about healing and the processes of healing that don't feel cheesy.

00:29:10.544 --> 00:29:18.429
Yeah. Because, and I've probably participated in this, like on this very podcast.

00:29:18.429 --> 00:29:24.840
Cheesiness, but healing, I think in some ways, like capital H healing trademark has become

00:29:25.189 --> 00:29:30.029
a little bit of a commodity and it feels a bit cheesy at times.

00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:40.789
I feel like you describe it in a way that feels really real and more so how it happens

00:29:40.789 --> 00:29:46.409
in reality as opposed to like, we sit and we journal for X minutes and then I burn my

00:29:46.409 --> 00:29:53.287
my sage and then I, you know, it's more of like processing things in real time.

00:29:53.849 --> 00:30:03.829
Yeah. Is that kind of how by design? Yeah, it is, you know, because I like I mentioned the book, so I have bipolar disorder too.

00:30:04.249 --> 00:30:13.649
Also have ADHD, also C-PTSD. So like in these past couple years, in terms of like processing my own mental state, it

00:30:13.649 --> 00:30:18.289
required me to, as you mentioned, also.

00:30:17.170 --> 00:30:21.340
Process these more tough or traumatic memories or happenings.

00:30:21.725 --> 00:30:26.820
So I wanted to make sure the book reflected that as well.

00:30:26.947 --> 00:30:30.260
That like, you know, I know we say healing is not a linear process,

00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:31.916
but I really mean that shit.

00:30:32.294 --> 00:30:39.020
Like, there'd be times where like I was Gucci. Like, I thought I had done all the processing I needed to do on a situation.

00:30:39.415 --> 00:30:42.580
And then something else happened that was really similar. And I'm like, you know what?

00:30:42.580 --> 00:30:45.340
Actually, we got rewind because I'm not over it.

00:30:45.725 --> 00:30:52.040
Like you said, I'm not I'm not we got to go back and talk about it. So I wanted that to definitely be.

00:30:53.089 --> 00:30:58.840
Present in the book because you know happened to me in reality as well where it was like, okay

00:30:58.840 --> 00:31:02.360
This thing happened. I got to go back in my childhood where it was relevant

00:31:02.360 --> 00:31:05.120
I gotta go back for it. Did it happen in between again?

00:31:05.575 --> 00:31:11.680
So, you know, I really want to illustrate kind of what you know, the chaotic nature of healing actually

00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:13.335
I think healing is very chaotic.

00:31:13.930 --> 00:31:17.810
I feel like, well, I feel like if you said that, people would be like, okay, then why do I need to heal?

00:31:18.116 --> 00:31:23.280
So then people try to go more violently in the other direction, as you said,

00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:26.929
where then it gets very cheesy and very canned, bunch of canned responses.

00:31:27.271 --> 00:31:31.016
But, you know, healing is chaotic, but it's very necessary.

00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:38.720
Otherwise, you'll just get really stuck in these patterns that don't like serve you or the person

00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.197
that you want to be or are aiming to be.

00:31:43.840 --> 00:31:51.640
I love what you said about sometimes needing to go back because I think those moments can feel almost frustrating.

00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:53.640
We're like, oh, I thought I was over this.

00:31:53.791 --> 00:31:57.400
I thought that I got through this. Like, why am I still upset about this?

00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:00.552
Or why am I like feeling triggered by this event?

00:32:00.732 --> 00:32:08.780
And I just really appreciate that you openly discussed that because it is something that is so human

00:32:08.780 --> 00:32:15.440
and is so natural to experience and is not an indication that we're not on our way

00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.760
or that we're not becoming who we wanna be at all.

00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:19.565
It's just an indication that we're still human.

00:32:21.771 --> 00:32:26.787
Right. All works in progress. If you're not, I don't remember who said the quote, so don't kill me,

00:32:26.787 --> 00:32:30.627
but there's a great quote I read a couple years ago and it's one of those things where like, you

00:32:30.627 --> 00:32:36.219
know, to be human is to be very dynamic, right? You know, if you're not learning something or

00:32:36.467 --> 00:32:42.387
improving on something at any point in your journey, then you just, like, what are you doing?

00:32:42.387 --> 00:32:49.027
Like, you've just stopped progressing as a human, which is so weird, you know, because it's supposed

00:32:49.027 --> 00:32:54.387
stuck to be a constant thing, constant thing. You know, maybe it gets tiring, but you know,

00:32:54.387 --> 00:33:00.387
you always want to be improving yourself. And that looks different for everybody. That's

00:33:00.387 --> 00:33:05.147
why the act of just not improving is weird to me because it's, it's so many things you

00:33:05.147 --> 00:33:10.187
can do. Maybe I don't know. You didn't know how to fix lamps last year. Now you know how

00:33:10.187 --> 00:33:15.640
to fix lamps. Like there's so many things you can do to improve yourself, right? Quotations as a human being.

00:33:16.072 --> 00:33:19.250
So actively choosing to not do that, I feel like says a lot.

00:33:19.907 --> 00:33:25.787
Right, or actively choosing to not learn from experiences you've had, or even things

00:33:25.787 --> 00:33:31.124
that you've seen other people do. Because you can also learn a lot from other people's experiences too.

00:33:31.427 --> 00:33:39.217
Absolutely. Right, right. And you are 27? You're in your late 20s still. So I'm 28, yeah.

00:33:39.467 --> 00:33:45.852
I'll be 29 this year. OK, OK, awesome. Late 20s, that's a, late 20s is a time.

00:33:46.608 --> 00:33:50.187
It's a time. It's a very interesting time. Very interesting time.

00:33:50.187 --> 00:33:54.547
You're in like this weird limbo before, you know, the big three oh, you know,

00:33:54.547 --> 00:33:59.859
that people just cry about all the, it's weird. Oh my God, I'm turning 30 and I'm like...

00:34:00.444 --> 00:34:08.575
Okay, well, my 20s were terrible. So bring it on. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I feel like,

00:34:08.575 --> 00:34:13.475
you know, 30 sounds much more adult, I guess, than 26, 27. So I think that's why people

00:34:13.475 --> 00:34:18.295
freak out. They're like, Oh, my God, I'm an adult for real. But I'm like, you know, I've

00:34:18.295 --> 00:34:25.195
been feeling a very, you know, like once since I left home. Now, obviously, the very degrees

00:34:25.195 --> 00:34:29.655
of adulthood have fluctuated because you know, I'm still growing and learning. But one of

00:34:29.655 --> 00:34:33.895
those things like once you get pushed out that little nest, little quotation,

00:34:33.895 --> 00:34:37.815
bird nest of your parents or whatever, if you have them or whatever,

00:34:38.175 --> 00:34:42.440
I feel like your life changes dramatically anyway.

00:34:42.566 --> 00:34:47.415
So me getting to 30 is actually a little less shocking than when I left,

00:34:47.415 --> 00:34:50.776
you know, when I left my parents home, but that's just me. I can't speak for everybody.

00:34:51.226 --> 00:34:59.155
Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, I appreciate that insight though. It, your twenties are just such this weird decade because it's a time where

00:34:59.155 --> 00:35:01.735
you experience so many things for the first time.

00:35:01.735 --> 00:35:09.075
And so it's like, oh, hold up, wait a minute. Everything just feels so chaotic because for a lot of it,

00:35:09.195 --> 00:35:10.475
it's the first time it happens.

00:35:10.475 --> 00:35:15.075
And then I think our society has put a lot of pressure on the age of 30 of like,

00:35:15.075 --> 00:35:21.635
you have to have all these things figured out by the age of 30, which actually makes no sense.

00:35:21.635 --> 00:35:26.335
It makes no sense when we logically think about it, but that's the opposite of what we're told.

00:35:26.335 --> 00:35:28.469
So there's all this pressure around it.

00:35:28.595 --> 00:35:32.995
And we get there and we're like, oh, I'm still the same person.

00:35:32.995 --> 00:35:34.896
I'm still working through the same things.

00:35:36.955 --> 00:35:40.928
Still here, learned a little bit more, but we're still here.

00:35:41.395 --> 00:35:45.155
But it's interesting. I feel like I've just had a lot of people in my life

00:35:45.155 --> 00:35:46.995
who are in their twenties and have that,

00:35:46.995 --> 00:35:49.597
I call it like the twenties anxiety.

00:35:49.759 --> 00:35:53.180
And it's been like put on my heart to help them.

00:35:53.891 --> 00:36:00.003
Calm down a little bit. Right. You're not going to die when you hit big three-o.

00:36:00.265 --> 00:36:02.164
You're not. No, I'm not going to die.

00:36:02.956 --> 00:36:05.144
It feels like it. Your twenties. Right.

00:36:05.265 --> 00:36:09.933
Like you mentioned, the little propaganda around it, it's a lot, but it's okay.

00:36:10.590 --> 00:36:11.274
We're going to be okay.

00:36:12.425 --> 00:36:18.545
All going to be okay. And I think there's also a lot of pressure too, particularly in your twenties around

00:36:18.836 --> 00:36:20.385
like, well, what am I doing with my life?

00:36:20.385 --> 00:36:23.345
Well, I'm not here yet. I'm not there yet.

00:36:23.345 --> 00:36:26.785
And it's like, nobody knows what they're doing with their life.

00:36:26.785 --> 00:36:28.847
Nobody does just one thing with their life.

00:36:29.545 --> 00:36:32.545
It's a lie. More propaganda. It is a big lie.

00:36:32.545 --> 00:36:35.779
You know, people are constantly, you know, because if we're talking about dynamic humans,

00:36:36.256 --> 00:36:38.938
right, you know, constantly reinventing ourselves.

00:36:39.465 --> 00:36:44.665
Like I could be a carpenter all my life, like Harrison Ford, and then decide at like 42

00:36:44.665 --> 00:36:48.805
that I want to act now. You know, it happens just like that. It's so quick.

00:36:49.065 --> 00:36:51.956
Samuel Jackson is another example. He just started acting too late too.

00:36:52.545 --> 00:36:57.960
So there's no age limit on like changing direction in your life.

00:36:59.004 --> 00:37:07.305
Exactly. So in the book, you mention feeling like it was your destiny to be simultaneously invisible

00:37:07.305 --> 00:37:09.545
and hyper visible. And that...

00:37:10.608 --> 00:37:22.365
Line like really was very striking, very, very striking. And something that I think could be really relatable for a lot of black women, our audience,

00:37:22.870 --> 00:37:26.458
obviously, balanced black girls, primarily who listens.

00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:34.458
Can we talk about that? Can we talk about what it means to kind of exist at that kind of dynamic intersection?

00:37:34.458 --> 00:37:39.458
It's very tough because, you know, it's a mindfuck because you're just like,

00:37:39.458 --> 00:37:42.062
like, oh, people see me, but not really.

00:37:42.630 --> 00:37:46.818
Like, that's the whole thing. They're only seeing what they want to see,

00:37:46.818 --> 00:37:50.182
or they're seeing what they have projected onto me.

00:37:50.498 --> 00:37:53.658
And that was the big problem, because one of those things where like,

00:37:53.658 --> 00:37:58.203
I'm rendered invisible when it's convenient to people, no matter who the person.

00:37:59.538 --> 00:38:04.352
It could be another black person. I'm rendered invisible when it's convenient to them,

00:38:04.818 --> 00:38:09.546
when they don't want to engage me on a personal level, or human to human level, right?

00:38:09.618 --> 00:38:16.307
And then when it's time to capitalize in whatever way, whether it's like cultural, social capital,

00:38:16.858 --> 00:38:18.578
proximity, doesn't matter.

00:38:18.578 --> 00:38:25.438
And when it's time to capitalize on me, now I am not even just regular visible,

00:38:25.438 --> 00:38:27.164
I'm hyper visible, you know.

00:38:27.538 --> 00:38:31.710
Now I'm given all the attention quotations, but it's not the right kind of attention

00:38:32.038 --> 00:38:34.177
because at that point I'm being exploited.

00:38:34.572 --> 00:38:42.058
Now for the reason, the reason for expectation going to vary from again depending on that person but you know it's all the same. It's all the same

00:38:42.058 --> 00:38:46.636
just different flavors so that's kind of what I was talking about. I was just like you know

00:38:46.824 --> 00:38:52.778
nobody really cares until they do but it's going to be for the wrong reason because of who I am,

00:38:53.234 --> 00:38:56.538
And that's not fair to me, right, but it happens.

00:38:58.392 --> 00:39:07.053
Yeah, definitely. It makes you think a lot about exploitation and about, as you mentioned, kind of the attention,

00:39:07.638 --> 00:39:12.042
that people pay when it's convenient to them.

00:39:12.042 --> 00:39:16.422
Sometimes the things that people want us to do, it makes me think like, who's benefiting from this?

00:39:16.829 --> 00:39:19.692
Exactly. Because usually, if I'm being pushed, it's never us.

00:39:20.382 --> 00:39:23.342
It's usually not in our best interest. Nope, not at all.

00:39:24.148 --> 00:39:27.282
But they expect us to be okay with it, and that's the part that pisses me off.

00:39:27.282 --> 00:39:31.202
That's where I get mad. I'm like, it's one thing for you to be doing the thing, right?

00:39:31.539 --> 00:39:37.399
But if you're expecting me to be grateful for the thing, now we have to go outside because,

00:39:38.162 --> 00:39:42.562
now we have to fight. That's the only way to just go get some food.

00:39:42.562 --> 00:39:44.664
We just got to physically fight. Right.

00:39:45.204 --> 00:39:51.002
Yeah. Yeah. Why would I be grateful for exploitation? Yes. Essentially, it just doesn't make sense.

00:39:51.002 --> 00:39:52.586
It don't make no sense. It don't.

00:39:53.002 --> 00:40:00.805
It does not. Yeah. One of those things too, you just know that the person on the other side would never be able to handle

00:40:00.902 --> 00:40:05.685
that same treatment, but they're expecting you to just, you know, hold your head up high,

00:40:05.782 --> 00:40:09.222
be very dignified at the fact that you're being exploited.

00:40:09.222 --> 00:40:12.697
Like, it's crazy. I'm like, do y'all hear yourself?

00:40:13.062 --> 00:40:16.487
Okay. Literally, literally, yeah.

00:40:16.882 --> 00:40:22.582
Was there an initial experience you had where you first came to that realization

00:40:22.582 --> 00:40:24.580
or where that was initially highlighted for you?

00:40:24.862 --> 00:40:31.042
I mean, probably early on in school, I briefly touch on some of those school dynamics

00:40:31.042 --> 00:40:34.150
in the chapter about high school, and then I go to college, right?

00:40:34.582 --> 00:40:36.589
But in school is when those things were like, you know.

00:40:37.165 --> 00:40:42.855
By virtue of being in high school, right? Everybody wants to be hot. Like I don't think people should lie about that

00:40:42.855 --> 00:40:47.235
I feel like what people only I was in high school and I wasn't worried about stop lying.

00:40:48.139 --> 00:40:54.675
We're all horny all horny teenagers in high school with emotional regulation issues because of puberty,

00:40:55.350 --> 00:41:01.135
You want it to be hot? That is okay. You're not taking anything away from yourself by saying that I was like I,

00:41:01.655 --> 00:41:05.055
Want to be hot? I want to be a hot girl before they're hot girls, right?

00:41:05.055 --> 00:41:09.955
So it's one of those things where like, I was denied that aspect of my being.

00:41:09.955 --> 00:41:17.175
I wasn't really seen like that, right? But when it was time to help somebody with homework or, you know, help someone this or

00:41:17.175 --> 00:41:19.323
that, then again, I became visible.

00:41:19.575 --> 00:41:24.735
But like when it came to that other aspect of, you know, personhood, sexuality, doesn't

00:41:24.735 --> 00:41:29.450
matter, whatever, whatever verbiage applies in that way, I was denied that.

00:41:29.865 --> 00:41:34.375
Like again, for whoever's convenience, that part of me did not exist.

00:41:34.816 --> 00:41:41.335
But if it was to help somebody cater to somebody, get someone out of quick bind, then, you know, suddenly I'm here.

00:41:41.335 --> 00:41:46.775
Suddenly I'm available for a long time too. That's why I kind of didn't like being called helpful.

00:41:46.775 --> 00:41:49.760
Cause I was just like, don't even call me dad.

00:41:49.841 --> 00:41:53.406
Cause then that just makes me not want to help you. Like don't even, don't do that.

00:41:53.802 --> 00:41:56.160
Just, no, I hated that.

00:41:56.656 --> 00:42:05.635
Cause it was like, like spinning different, like it's like a, like spinning distance away from like, you know, that, that Mammy caricature to me personally,

00:42:05.635 --> 00:42:11.113
because it's just especially depending on the type of health that was being dulled out too.

00:42:12.319 --> 00:42:15.155
Yeah, that was kind of what I experienced early in high school.

00:42:15.398 --> 00:42:20.710
Later, obviously, that evolves, but that was probably my earliest experiences with it.

00:42:21.033 --> 00:42:26.609
Yeah, I think that totally makes sense and appreciate you sharing that example,

00:42:26.609 --> 00:42:31.409
because I think that's an example that a lot of people can see themselves in and relate to.

00:42:31.409 --> 00:42:38.969
And even what you just mentioned about not wanting to be called helpful, I think is really important.

00:42:38.969 --> 00:42:42.449
I almost think of that as the same as like not wanting to be called strong.

00:42:42.449 --> 00:42:47.329
It's a different side of the same coin because it's like, okay, well, what do you mean by that?

00:42:47.329 --> 00:42:55.049
Because when I hear people say that, that just means, okay, we're just going to load up everything on this person because this is what we expect them to do,

00:42:55.629 --> 00:43:00.689
versus an actual quality or something that that person is even consented to or wanted to be.

00:43:00.689 --> 00:43:02.840
Exactly. Exactly. That's it.

00:43:03.489 --> 00:43:07.289
All of these things, I'm like, oh. Yeah, just I don't know.

00:43:07.289 --> 00:43:12.889
People can wear you sometimes like even if you know right being helpful right is in your nature.

00:43:13.850 --> 00:43:18.729
People exploring it just enough will make you be like i'm gonna go in the complete opposite

00:43:18.729 --> 00:43:24.329
direction i'm not to be the most unhelpful person that you know now because i'm sick of this i'm

00:43:24.329 --> 00:43:30.329
sick you know now that i'm older i try not to like go into that opposite direction you know but if i

00:43:30.329 --> 00:43:35.529
start to get fatigued i will just i'll leave i will just withdraw because i'm like i'm not going

00:43:35.529 --> 00:43:39.089
let you ruin this part of myself for me.

00:43:39.182 --> 00:43:45.205
Because like if I stick around here, I'm definitely going to be resentful of you, me, whoever else.

00:43:45.649 --> 00:43:53.089
So I need to go. But yeah, people really can like push enough buttons for you to be like, I know this is

00:43:53.089 --> 00:43:57.844
part of my character, but I don't even want this to be part of my character anymore because people piss me off.

00:43:58.049 --> 00:44:02.507
So that's always a danger too. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

00:44:02.957 --> 00:44:10.609
That's an absolute danger. And another thing or another way that I think that can manifest is it almost kind of trains

00:44:10.924 --> 00:44:15.649
people to be people pleasers, trains us to be people pleasers where we think we have

00:44:15.649 --> 00:44:22.729
to constantly be earning bare minimum respect, love, kindness from others, that that always

00:44:22.729 --> 00:44:26.534
has to be an exchange for us doing something.

00:44:26.709 --> 00:44:28.668
And that's a slippery slope too.

00:44:29.209 --> 00:44:34.969
So one of the other elements that I would also love to talk about is that you write

00:44:34.969 --> 00:44:35.969
a lot about your body.

00:44:36.248 --> 00:44:42.929
You write a lot about your weight experience with major injury, how that impacted you physically,

00:44:42.929 --> 00:44:44.287
mentally, emotionally.

00:44:44.709 --> 00:44:47.996
So I would love to just talk a little bit more about your relationship with your body

00:44:48.289 --> 00:44:51.849
and how that's evolved over time. It's very tumultuous.

00:44:52.317 --> 00:44:56.089
I think it's just going to be that way until I get put back in the ground, honestly.

00:44:56.089 --> 00:44:58.222
I'm not even going to lie about that.

00:44:58.609 --> 00:45:01.729
Know, because combination with like I mentioned in the book,

00:45:01.985 --> 00:45:08.529
societal messaging but also my upbringing made it so that like

00:45:07.854 --> 00:45:14.584
I was destined to really have just a fucked up relationship with it. It's gotten better over the years.

00:45:15.434 --> 00:45:17.304
Because I've been able to,

00:45:18.108 --> 00:45:27.084
suss out my own voice amongst the chaos or the voice of you know, my parents or the voice of you know, again society,

00:45:27.632 --> 00:45:36.724
And making sure that those don't cross, you know You know, cuz they could say whatever society could say whatever but at the end of the day comes down to me and my body

00:45:36.724 --> 00:45:40.204
Like how do we feel about each other the way I write the book?

00:45:40.776 --> 00:45:44.044
I try to make it clear that you know, I am my own entity, right?

00:45:44.044 --> 00:45:49.244
I guess you know if you believe that spiritually, right, but then my body is his own thing, you know

00:45:49.244 --> 00:45:55.204
My body says own thing. I can have all the awesome spirit in the world. I can be spunky or whatever.

00:45:55.999 --> 00:46:03.164
But if my body's like bitch, fuck you then that's it You know that she has the final say cuz you know, she's the vehicle right? So

00:46:03.164 --> 00:46:07.484
So yeah, my initial relationship with her was not great.

00:46:07.484 --> 00:46:10.804
Now that I've been able to reflect and like I mentioned, you know, I've been in therapy,

00:46:10.804 --> 00:46:17.204
I've done some reading and been able to pinpoint some of the earlier life issues that kind,

00:46:17.811 --> 00:46:19.251
of follow me to the present.

00:46:19.444 --> 00:46:22.294
I think, you know, I have a much better relationship with her.

00:46:22.700 --> 00:46:27.002
I always try to remind myself that, you know, she doing her best as am I.

00:46:27.484 --> 00:46:33.324
So you know, obviously if I'm struggling, then I should look into that.

00:46:33.970 --> 00:46:40.479
But let's say taking it out my body, right? It's not the best course of action either. Things are better.

00:46:40.830 --> 00:46:46.339
They're not perfect because you know, sometimes I let's say, sometimes I regress on my own progress, right?

00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:51.224
Well, I think I try to be truthful about that, you know, because I do subscribe to like fat

00:46:51.224 --> 00:46:54.315
liberation politics. But you know, I'm not gonna feel. I'm not gonna feel.

00:46:54.972 --> 00:47:01.302
Happy all the time about me and my body because like I said, I still have to wake up every day and combat,

00:47:01.796 --> 00:47:06.622
societal messaging like you know, it's cool when I'm inside my house when I'm asleep

00:47:06.622 --> 00:47:09.062
I'm not thinking about that when I go out to the world.

00:47:10.114 --> 00:47:16.262
I'm gonna encounter people who you know who believe who feel the opposite about me and my body.

00:47:17.222 --> 00:47:24.162
Even though it's not a business So this one of those things where like I have to be able to process that and not internalize it

00:47:24.554 --> 00:47:30.242
Which is where sometimes a lot of us get stuck. That's what I would say, you know, but yeah, she do her best

00:47:30.342 --> 00:47:32.642
She doing her best. So I try to respect that. Yeah,

00:47:33.403 --> 00:47:42.891
Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for just your honesty and sharing I think sometimes with that question it can be easy for people to be like well

00:47:43.242 --> 00:47:52.882
Everything is great now and I my body is my temple that I love every day And that's just not always the reality of how we always feel and and it's you know

00:47:52.882 --> 00:47:55.135
it's okay to say that.

00:47:55.261 --> 00:48:01.860
You mentioned just now kind of the difference between internalizing things and processing them.

00:48:02.122 --> 00:48:07.422
What are some practices that help you do that if we have folks who are maybe kind of going

00:48:07.422 --> 00:48:08.386
through the same thing?

00:48:08.622 --> 00:48:13.679
Yeah, I literally straight up, like if I have the thought, I ask myself, where's that coming from?

00:48:13.782 --> 00:48:20.942
So like in the book, like I mentioned this, like I had thought some really dark thought about my body

00:48:20.942 --> 00:48:24.680
and then like me and like my pair more at the time.

00:48:25.526 --> 00:48:31.616
Like pause and was like, where is that coming from? And then, you know, upon thinking about it, I was like, okay,

00:48:31.616 --> 00:48:35.816
this is something that was said to me in my childhood home.

00:48:36.338 --> 00:48:42.090
Now, if I have the wherewithal to kind of push, maybe I can identify the person who said it right back in my mind.

00:48:42.550 --> 00:48:46.736
But the point is like to identify where it's coming from.

00:48:47.123 --> 00:48:50.736
Now, that's going to be tough because, you know, you need to feel the feeling first.

00:48:51.616 --> 00:48:57.056
People try to skip over that and I'm like, no, Because if you don't feel the feeling first, what you think about later, then you're going

00:48:57.056 --> 00:48:58.132
to have to feel the feeling.

00:48:58.336 --> 00:49:01.976
And then you're going to be mad about it because you thought you processed it, but you hadn't

00:49:01.976 --> 00:49:03.678
because you skipped over step number one.

00:49:03.976 --> 00:49:05.686
Right? So you have to feel the feeling first.

00:49:06.096 --> 00:49:10.656
But once you get, you know, once you not get over, but once you like get through the feeling,

00:49:10.656 --> 00:49:14.796
right, then you could be like, okay, what is the source of this thing?

00:49:15.456 --> 00:49:22.176
You know, that's how I've navigated that particular issue to ensure that I'm not internalizing it.

00:49:22.176 --> 00:49:32.136
When I internalize it, now I'm attributing whatever that thought or terrible thing was to me personally. Now I'm acting as if I'm the one who said

00:49:32.136 --> 00:49:35.296
thing, right? Or I'm the one who did thing and that's not what happened. It was done

00:49:35.296 --> 00:49:40.936
to me. It was said to me. So once you're able to like properly separate that, then

00:49:40.936 --> 00:49:45.836
you'll be like, oh, I didn't do that. You know, you're like, oh, that's not, that was not me. So

00:49:46.096 --> 00:49:50.724
then you can really be like, oh, yeah, that person was awesome. BS. That's not me. So

00:49:51.096 --> 00:49:56.496
So then it could be like that's one memory or terrible thought or whatever it is that

00:49:56.496 --> 00:49:59.105
you don't have to carry because it's not yours, period.

00:49:59.696 --> 00:50:06.896
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. That distinction is so important of whose voice is this?

00:50:06.896 --> 00:50:13.140
If it's not mine, I don't need to carry it. And I also don't need to bend my voice to then take this.

00:50:13.986 --> 00:50:21.592
Take these words as their own, because it's not. Exactly. I also really appreciated what you said about,

00:50:22.241 --> 00:50:28.804
just that we almost have this expectation of ourselves to have our individual self-esteem,

00:50:28.804 --> 00:50:30.298
if we want to call it that way,

00:50:30.433 --> 00:50:37.644
be able to hold a match to these very intentional systems that don't always make just existing in our bodies

00:50:37.644 --> 00:50:41.724
the way they are as simple as it should be.

00:50:41.724 --> 00:50:42.163
Yes.

00:50:42.505 --> 00:50:50.684
And no one of us individually is any match for that. It's systems that have to be dismantled.

00:50:50.684 --> 00:50:53.091
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

00:50:53.244 --> 00:50:58.244
Yeah, self-esteem is, just the verbiage is so funny to me.

00:50:59.084 --> 00:51:02.764
Cause one of those things like, yeah, you can build all of that up,

00:51:02.764 --> 00:51:04.777
which you should, you should gas yourself.

00:51:05.044 --> 00:51:11.006
You need to in the society, right? But you're dealing with some very powerful,

00:51:11.644 --> 00:51:14.580
and very old people forget these systems are old, man.

00:51:14.764 --> 00:51:20.244
Like this stuff was in place before I was even, if somebody's nutsack, okay?

00:51:20.244 --> 00:51:24.554
Like, like, they're old.

00:51:24.644 --> 00:51:29.227
So, you know, people gotta keep that in mind too. Like when they feel bad about like, oh, why is this?

00:51:30.124 --> 00:51:36.844
I don't know why is this symptom of this system? Whether it's maybe you encounter some microaggression

00:51:36.844 --> 00:51:38.265
or something happens to you, right?

00:51:38.384 --> 00:51:42.424
Like don't be too hard on yourself.

00:51:42.864 --> 00:51:45.989
It's very easy to be like, oh, I should have reacted this way, that way, whatever.

00:51:46.084 --> 00:51:50.504
You know, you don't go out every day and be like, I'm gonna capture this racism.

00:51:50.504 --> 00:51:54.384
You know, you don't go out expecting that every day. Like, you know, yes, in the back of your mind,

00:51:54.384 --> 00:51:55.477
that is a possibility.

00:51:55.824 --> 00:51:59.344
But actually being like, I was minding my black ass business

00:51:59.344 --> 00:52:01.194
and then this thing happened, you know,

00:52:01.304 --> 00:52:02.624
it's a separate thing, right?

00:52:02.624 --> 00:52:12.069
So we gotta remember that these are old systems And it is okay sometimes if you feel overwhelmed by them.

00:52:14.564 --> 00:52:19.104
You don't wanna stay there because once you stay there, then it gets hard to get up.

00:52:20.184 --> 00:52:25.500
These are older systems and there's nothing wrong with you. if you know.

00:52:26.319 --> 00:52:33.929
Temporarily you get emotionally injured by having to deal with them, right? But like you said,

00:52:33.929 --> 00:52:38.969
you know, by solo, doing it solo though is going to be tougher than if you have access to,

00:52:39.822 --> 00:52:46.009
greater community. And then y'all could commiserate together about these awful systems that, yes,

00:52:46.009 --> 00:52:52.969
you need to be dismantled. Completely agree. Completely agree. And that really gets into the

00:52:52.969 --> 00:52:55.089
the importance of community.

00:52:55.089 --> 00:53:02.149
And I think also too, being able to check one another for all of the biases that we all have

00:53:02.149 --> 00:53:06.640
and being able to hold one another and ourselves accountable.

00:53:07.349 --> 00:53:13.914
So before we wrap up, I wanted to go one more, go into one more area.

00:53:14.049 --> 00:53:21.134
Something that I really appreciate about your work is just the thoughtfulness in how you critique culture.

00:53:21.549 --> 00:53:27.300
And representation is a term and a word that we hear thrown around a lot,

00:53:27.989 --> 00:53:33.729
but there's a lot of opportunity to dig deeper into what we mean when we say representation.

00:53:33.729 --> 00:53:39.993
So with that, I would love to talk about the Kent test, the Kent test, the litmus test that takes a look

00:53:40.349 --> 00:53:42.766
at thoughtful representation in media.

00:53:43.229 --> 00:53:49.104
So can you tell us more about the inspiration behind it and how you created it?

00:53:49.309 --> 00:53:55.531
Yes, thank you for asking. So I was joking. It was like halfway joking, halfway not.

00:53:55.989 --> 00:54:00.589
But there was like a tweet a couple of days ago that was like, you know, underrated actors.

00:54:00.589 --> 00:54:06.469
And I remember throwing up there, I was like, Nicole Buhari, like I'm so tired, people paying her dust.

00:54:06.469 --> 00:54:08.135
Like it upsets me, right?

00:54:08.229 --> 00:54:13.149
Cause she's beautiful, she's charming, but she can still act, you know.

00:54:13.149 --> 00:54:19.414
I'ma make some people upset, but like in our current roster of actors among my age group.

00:54:20.432 --> 00:54:27.242
It's not as good as it could be. Like a lot of these people are pretty, right? Quotations objectively.

00:54:27.319 --> 00:54:34.362
But like, I'm like, but where is the acting? Where is the skill? Where's the charisma?

00:54:35.420 --> 00:54:40.842
I don't believe none of y'all in y'all roles. You know, so, so for me, you know, Nicole, she's great,

00:54:40.842 --> 00:54:46.042
right? So I don't think she's properly gotten her due yet. Part of it had something to do with Sleepy

00:54:46.042 --> 00:54:57.202
hollow right the way that they did my girl like it was given human rights violation like that's how like flagrant her mistreatment was like I felt very

00:54:57.202 --> 00:55:02.682
strongly so basically at the time that was happening and the period that I was

00:55:02.682 --> 00:55:07.722
in my life observing what was on TV like what we expected to just kind of have and

00:55:07.722 --> 00:55:14.402
deal with all of that anger got you know synthesized into the test I was like you

00:55:14.402 --> 00:55:17.962
know it's cool being mad I like being mad sometimes sometimes you got to get

00:55:17.962 --> 00:55:23.482
mad so you can do something so I like being mad sometimes cuz I'm like that's

00:55:23.482 --> 00:55:31.433
the only way this thing don't get done cuz sometimes when you're calm with people they still they like to play your face but when you start turning up then.

00:55:32.442 --> 00:55:41.101
People want to move yeah is there a technically better way to do it sometimes yes but so you know sometimes again effective right hard you know

00:55:41.290 --> 00:55:46.842
Sometimes people don't hear and they don't want to hear you until you start yelling.

00:55:46.842 --> 00:55:51.942
So that's what happened with the test. I got mad and I was like, okay, let me do something.

00:55:51.942 --> 00:55:56.402
So I had worked in conjunction with Claudia for her, which is not defunct, but I worked

00:55:56.402 --> 00:55:58.802
in conjunction with them.

00:55:58.802 --> 00:56:03.616
And I started coming up with the representation guide, which there are some remnants of it

00:56:03.762 --> 00:56:07.289
on the internet, but basically the test is the remaining portion.

00:56:07.460 --> 00:56:12.202
I was like, it's nice and fun to come up with verbiage to describe what's going on.

00:56:12.564 --> 00:56:17.962
But if people have essentially a checklist they can move through, it makes it easier

00:56:17.962 --> 00:56:23.642
for them to be like, oh, okay, so if I keep comparing certain media on this checklist

00:56:23.889 --> 00:56:28.682
and I keep seeing the same recurring issue and over and over again, now I can see

00:56:28.682 --> 00:56:30.482
clearly what's going on.

00:56:30.983 --> 00:56:35.482
So basically I wanted to create the thing so people could see that stuff in real time.

00:56:36.204 --> 00:56:42.294
And be able to have that language, have that verbiage, and explain the problem in detail now

00:56:42.380 --> 00:56:47.205
because you have that verbiage, you have that checklist. And then, you know, I also wanted to

00:56:47.494 --> 00:56:53.814
show, like, general populists too when it comes to media that if you brush away all the biases

00:56:53.920 --> 00:57:00.214
that I'm discussing in the test, right, at the end of the day, we're identifying an issue where

00:57:00.214 --> 00:57:01.824
where people really can't write.

00:57:02.434 --> 00:57:08.694
They think they can write, but they cannot because if they were coming up with,

00:57:08.694 --> 00:57:12.414
in the very least, three dimensional characters.

00:57:13.414 --> 00:57:18.253
A lot of the pitfalls that I talk about in the test would be avoided.

00:57:18.334 --> 00:57:25.041
Now, obviously, especially if you're a non-black person, you still gonna have some biases, that's just period.

00:57:25.174 --> 00:57:29.326
And you can still be a black person with biases against black people.

00:57:29.454 --> 00:57:32.522
So some of that definitely will still come through.

00:57:32.974 --> 00:57:36.174
But once again, if you were doing some three dimensional writing,

00:57:36.174 --> 00:57:41.614
then it would be easier to kind of avoid at least the more obvious biases.

00:57:41.614 --> 00:57:45.734
So the fact that biases just be coming in all over the place should tell y'all

00:57:45.734 --> 00:57:47.774
that motherfuckers don't know how to write.

00:57:49.774 --> 00:57:54.254
They do not. So that was kind of like the whole thing behind the test.

00:57:54.254 --> 00:57:57.503
So it's been interesting to see how it's received, how it's been used.

00:57:57.894 --> 00:58:06.596
You know, I've gotten calls and emails from like students, also professors, also people in my field.

00:58:06.854 --> 00:58:11.454
So it's been cool hearing the feedback and also being part of the feedback

00:58:11.454 --> 00:58:14.428
and having to kind of deal with that in real time too.

00:58:14.894 --> 00:58:19.343
Cause I remember talking about the test in like when I was doing Twitter spaces

00:58:19.574 --> 00:58:26.176
before the Ratman took over, right? I was in a Witcher, Elon, yeah.

00:58:26.414 --> 00:58:32.374
I was in a space for the Witcher and me and my colleagues in the space, we had an interesting

00:58:32.374 --> 00:58:39.174
discussion because we were talking about the one of the last rules that asked for different

00:58:39.174 --> 00:58:43.814
female characters of color to talk or at least to interact.

00:58:43.814 --> 00:58:46.260
That's the verbage I use interact initially, right?

00:58:46.494 --> 00:58:50.934
So something interesting in that, I think the first season of Witcher happens where

00:58:50.934 --> 00:59:00.774
like there are you know non-white and black characters in one scene and.

00:59:01.249 --> 00:59:06.454
Technically there's interaction but not with each other that was the that was

00:59:06.454 --> 00:59:10.774
the kicker it was what notes things where I was like oh

00:59:09.945 --> 00:59:15.103
So I have to clarify this. I was like, no, they have to talk to each other. Like you can't,

00:59:15.238 --> 00:59:20.018
you can't, there can't be no, I guess, nonverbal, like that's not going to be acceptable.

00:59:21.080 --> 00:59:26.035
Because that's also very subjective. Maybe some person think that they saw them, I don't know,

00:59:26.035 --> 00:59:29.635
give each other a look. And maybe the other person's like, I see that. So I was like,

00:59:29.635 --> 00:59:35.155
I had to go back and be like, okay, so they need to talk to each other. Period. Like they need to

00:59:35.155 --> 00:59:39.875
talk to each other. And you know, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have been able to go back

00:59:40.021 --> 00:59:44.995
and make that addendum if I also wasn't in dialogue with people. So, you know, it's good

00:59:44.995 --> 00:59:51.075
to put out the test, but you also have to be talking to people about this, or any type of like

00:59:51.075 --> 00:59:59.475
media phenomenon. Because none of this changes if people are, you know, on all sides, communicating

00:59:59.475 --> 01:00:04.355
about these issues, whether you're in front of a camera, behind the camera, whether it's me and you

01:00:04.355 --> 01:00:10.125
talking on this podcast right now, or someone on Twitter, Tumblr, it doesn't matter.

01:00:10.475 --> 01:00:14.140
We all got to be constantly in communication about stuff like this.

01:00:14.635 --> 01:00:20.955
Yeah, yeah, definitely. The conversation is often where the rubber meets the road.

01:00:21.180 --> 01:00:27.265
Yes, because it's nice to have a theory, but practice. What is actually practical?

01:00:27.769 --> 01:00:35.095
Right, yeah. And talking to one another to be like, okay, here's what I'm seeing. What are you seeing?

01:00:35.095 --> 01:00:41.055
And gaining that perspective is also really important because sometimes in media, things

01:00:41.055 --> 01:00:43.883
can be consumed so differently.

01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.422
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

01:00:46.863 --> 01:00:52.635
I love getting to hear a little bit more just about your thoughts behind it and the origin of it.

01:00:52.635 --> 01:00:58.215
I really love the questions and I think that they're really great for just helping us think

01:00:58.215 --> 01:01:05.507
a little bit more and a little bit deeper about what it is that we're seeing and how what we're seeing.

01:01:06.074 --> 01:01:12.790
Shapes what we think and so we link the test in the show notes so that people can check it out because I,

01:01:13.609 --> 01:01:17.344
Really enjoyed the questions that it asked us to pondered. Thank you. Thank you

01:01:17.344 --> 01:01:25.364
I've tried to kind of not cover everything because you know one cannot cover everything but you know, just common things that I saw.

01:01:26.266 --> 01:01:29.464
Like why you know, why do we always have to be these weird?

01:01:30.264 --> 01:01:37.124
Background characters for these other people I was like Like, y'all are not the main characters you think you are.

01:01:37.124 --> 01:01:41.384
So let's talk about that. You know, so it's one of those things where I really want to get into it.

01:01:41.384 --> 01:01:45.621
Like this is how you view us in real life, right?

01:01:45.824 --> 01:01:50.617
So this is why it is now translating to your fictional universe.

01:01:50.704 --> 01:01:53.273
And this is why I don't like that shit.

01:01:53.384 --> 01:01:55.073
You know? Exactly.

01:01:55.264 --> 01:01:57.657
Why it's false. Right.

01:01:58.026 --> 01:02:02.590
Like we're not the background characters to your life. Like you need to go somewhere where we're there.

01:02:02.944 --> 01:02:09.207
Exactly, exactly. And tying back to kind of what we've talked about this whole time and why I

01:02:09.441 --> 01:02:15.504
was really excited to talk to authors this month is why it's also so important for us to be sharing

01:02:15.504 --> 01:02:23.344
our stories using our voices so that if the only stories we're seeing and hearing are ones where

01:02:23.344 --> 01:02:25.664
where these weird side characters.

01:02:27.040 --> 01:02:33.852
That's not good. It's not good for our collective psyche. Like, I hate, I really hate the whole,

01:02:33.852 --> 01:02:37.452
and I talk about this in the book, I hate the whole representation matters thing because it's

01:02:37.452 --> 01:02:43.132
been bastardized, obviously, right? Yes. But you know, when you think about where people,

01:02:44.019 --> 01:02:51.452
are getting their cultural competency from, it is from these TV shows, it is from these movies.

01:02:51.452 --> 01:02:56.492
You know, I think being an American is very interesting for a lot of reasons that people

01:02:56.492 --> 01:03:01.052
in this podcast are very aware of, you know, politically, culturally, doesn't matter, right?

01:03:01.249 --> 01:03:04.732
But one of the things that I always find interesting is that, you know, we are populists

01:03:04.732 --> 01:03:11.772
that believe that we're not easily influenceable. And I'm like, that could not be more untrue.

01:03:13.052 --> 01:03:20.652
Yeah, very. Yes, that's what I think about when I think about TV and movies and stuff. I was like, even if you're

01:03:20.652 --> 01:03:22.990
you're not like consciously thinking these things.

01:03:23.132 --> 01:03:27.892
Like you're still, you know, even unconsciously is still seeping through, right?

01:03:27.892 --> 01:03:31.172
I'll give y'all examples. So a couple months ago,

01:03:31.172 --> 01:03:35.017
I was watching Apple Elementary with my sister, right?

01:03:35.272 --> 01:03:41.352
And about twice during, I think two or three times during that show.

01:03:41.352 --> 01:03:44.865
And then like a second show that we watched afterwards, right?

01:03:45.132 --> 01:03:46.620
A piece of commercial came up.

01:03:47.092 --> 01:03:50.969
I don't remember who it was, like the actual brand, but a piece of commercial came on.

01:03:51.852 --> 01:03:56.492
And then it came on again, and then again. So at least three times in the like two,

01:03:56.492 --> 01:03:57.450
three hours we were sitting there.

01:03:58.072 --> 01:04:00.632
Didn't think nothing about it. Cause you know me, I don't like commercials.

01:04:00.632 --> 01:04:03.716
I'll mute it and then I'll go do what I'm supposed to be doing.

01:04:04.892 --> 01:04:10.532
But then hours later, hours later, I think it was like midnight or something,

01:04:10.532 --> 01:04:13.087
or one name am. I looked at my sister and I was like...

01:04:14.032 --> 01:04:24.922
Also pieces Like again, I didn't actually sit and watch these, you know Cuz I whenever the commercial came on I was either on my phone or I got up and I walked away

01:04:24.922 --> 01:04:29.682
You know, I was gone. I didn't sit there and be like, oh so so so we have this,

01:04:30.402 --> 01:04:39.802
1999 you happening right now with some chicken wings I didn't even actually watch it, but it was enough that I was exposed to it and then later

01:04:39.802 --> 01:04:46.562
I'm thinking this is a completely unique thought and no the whole day I was bombarding with pizza ads, you know

01:04:46.682 --> 01:04:52.942
So it can be something as simple that or it can be even more complex, but that just kind of goes to show,

01:04:53.705 --> 01:04:59.922
What the media is like in this country like how it functions You know, it seems completely innocuous.

01:05:01.024 --> 01:05:08.602
Because I'm talking about pizza But then if I were to talk about for example what happened here in Virginia with Glenn Yonkin,

01:05:09.117 --> 01:05:10.522
I have to give his team credit.

01:05:10.522 --> 01:05:12.898
I hate him and I want him to go to hell.

01:05:13.202 --> 01:05:18.498
But I have to give his team credit in the fact that their media campaign was relentless.

01:05:19.442 --> 01:05:26.789
When I asked people later after the election had come and gone, if they knew who the other

01:05:26.969 --> 01:05:31.122
candidate was, who ran, they couldn't even tell me.

01:05:31.122 --> 01:05:35.116
Even if they didn't like Glenn, they're like, I don't even know who ran, who was on the other side.

01:05:35.522 --> 01:05:48.475
Powerful. That's how media will get you. He is going to hell, but his media campaign was very strong, very competent, very calculated.

01:05:49.002 --> 01:05:53.669
So he got his name out there. I didn't know who the hell Glenn Youngkin was two, three years ago.

01:05:54.020 --> 01:05:55.668
I do now.

01:05:56.202 --> 01:06:02.023
So that's why as much it's annoying to hear representation matters, this and that, with,

01:06:02.802 --> 01:06:08.642
how propaganda is, you know, passed around this country, you have to be critical of the

01:06:08.642 --> 01:06:09.762
media that you're consuming.

01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:16.490
It can be exhausting because sometimes you just want to detach. But in this particular country,

01:06:16.490 --> 01:06:22.090
I don't think it's possible because of just the machinations that are happening in the background,

01:06:22.090 --> 01:06:28.170
whether you're aware of them or not. Yeah, that's such a good point. And even with those examples.

01:06:28.850 --> 01:06:34.330
They show how even if we're not even consciously thinking that we're paying attention or we're not

01:06:34.330 --> 01:06:39.370
even interested or we don't even like this candidate, we don't even agree with them, but it still

01:06:39.370 --> 01:06:43.050
is so relentless and persuasive.

01:06:43.050 --> 01:06:43.668
Exactly.

01:06:44.136 --> 01:06:50.023
That it makes that ability to critique really, really important.

01:06:50.330 --> 01:06:55.850
We have to be like hard to manipulate. Yes, yeah, exactly. For survival.

01:06:55.850 --> 01:06:59.404
Constantly your head needs to like, when it comes to media, constantly on a swivel.

01:06:59.570 --> 01:07:03.509
Listen, I still watch, for example, some of these Tarantino movies. I enjoy them.

01:07:03.941 --> 01:07:08.890
But at the end of the day, I'd be asking myself, why does this director feel so comfortable

01:07:08.890 --> 01:07:14.330
just putting the N word everywhere up in his stuff. Who gave the green light? It's not okay.

01:07:14.744 --> 01:07:20.050
It's not okay. But some people will consume it and be like, well, you know, it's just, it's just, it's whatever.

01:07:20.050 --> 01:07:22.792
It's just fiction or whatever. I'm like, okay, yes.

01:07:23.251 --> 01:07:29.508
And I am still critical of who brought this fiction to my screen, you know?

01:07:29.580 --> 01:07:31.875
Why do you feel comfortable writing about this?

01:07:32.523 --> 01:07:38.033
It doesn't matter that other people are saying it, right? You can, this is something you took out of your own brain,

01:07:38.096 --> 01:07:39.930
your white ass brain, right?

01:07:41.490 --> 01:07:45.850
You know, you make the black people say it on the screen is neither here nor there to me

01:07:45.850 --> 01:07:47.269
because it came out of your brain.

01:07:47.701 --> 01:07:52.810
So, you know, I encourage all people, doesn't matter. You know, even if, again,

01:07:52.810 --> 01:07:58.490
even if you don't have the technical language, really think about what you're consuming.

01:07:58.490 --> 01:08:00.448
Like if in your soul.

01:08:01.160 --> 01:08:05.730
In your mind, you're like, this don't feel right, this feels fucked up, then follow that.

01:08:05.730 --> 01:08:09.504
Because you on the money, even if again, you don't have the language yet.

01:08:09.775 --> 01:08:15.250
Oh, 100%. Absolutely. Even just saying this don't feel right, like that's all you need.

01:08:16.247 --> 01:08:19.970
All you need to know that something's offered to continue asking questions.

01:08:19.970 --> 01:08:23.730
Yes. Like, what about this is weird? You know, that's enough. Like,

01:08:23.730 --> 01:08:32.450
you are already on the right path when you're like, I watched it. I didn't like that. Why?

01:08:32.450 --> 01:08:35.570
Then you start, like you said, asking those follow-up questions. Then you can be like,

01:08:35.570 --> 01:08:40.860
oh, well, you didn't like this thing because it was misogynistic or it was racist or whatever.

01:08:41.220 --> 01:08:49.970
Yep. Exactly. It's so important because we are just exposed to so much media and content in a day

01:08:49.970 --> 01:08:54.610
that if we just absorb all of it without question,

01:08:54.610 --> 01:08:59.296
I mean, Lord only knows how our psyches are truly being impacted.

01:08:59.610 --> 01:09:05.120
Listen, we learned a hard lesson with a lot of these past elections,

01:09:05.490 --> 01:09:07.425
especially where social media is concerned.

01:09:07.839 --> 01:09:13.106
But that's like an entirely different... That'll be what we have to have like another episode to talk about that.

01:09:13.655 --> 01:09:18.730
You have to. I would love to have another episode to talk about that if you're interested.

01:09:19.164 --> 01:09:19.570
I think that could be a good thing to do.

01:09:19.570 --> 01:09:21.370
Oh, I would love to too. You know, I would love to.

01:09:21.370 --> 01:09:24.290
It's, you know, I don't want to be that old person

01:09:24.290 --> 01:09:29.598
talking about get off my lawn or whatever, but like in terms of technological advancements.

01:09:30.210 --> 01:09:34.890
I think social media is one that I personally would have been like, I would have went back in time

01:09:34.890 --> 01:09:36.647
and been like, no, don't do it.

01:09:37.030 --> 01:09:41.770
Don't do it. Just don't do it. Don't, you know, we don't need it.

01:09:41.770 --> 01:09:43.490
We don't need it. We don't need it.

01:09:43.911 --> 01:09:50.150
But you know, some people disagree, But I just feel like just the brand of narcissism

01:09:50.150 --> 01:09:54.804
that it brings out of people is very dark-sided for better and for worse too.

01:09:55.450 --> 01:09:59.143
So that's all I will say, because like I said, we need a whole episode.

01:10:02.190 --> 01:10:06.264
I would love to do a part two and dive deeper, deeper into that for sure.

01:10:06.948 --> 01:10:15.366
Oh my goodness, I loved this conversation. Thank you so, so much for joining me today and for,

01:10:16.078 --> 01:10:21.518
celebrating the launch of your book with us. And we have linked Fat On, Fat Off in the show notes

01:10:21.518 --> 01:10:30.318
so that you all can go get it today and read it. It is such a beautiful, honest read and I just

01:10:30.498 --> 01:10:35.998
appreciate you sharing with us. Thank you. Thank you so much for reading it. And I really,

01:10:35.998 --> 01:10:40.878
really enjoyed being on here. Questions were very thoughtful and I always appreciate that

01:10:40.878 --> 01:10:45.598
because you know when you're doing these book tours sometimes they get a little you know.

01:10:46.306 --> 01:10:51.278
Little monotonous, little repetitive right and there's nothing technically wrong with that but

01:10:51.429 --> 01:10:55.598
you know when you get those thoughtful questions you're like oh I hadn't thought about that let me

01:10:55.598 --> 01:11:01.758
think about it you know so it always makes the interviews really fun. Oh good well I'm so glad

01:11:01.758 --> 01:11:06.638
to hear that and I'm just so happy to have gotten the chance to talk to you and really appreciate

01:11:06.921 --> 01:11:16.478
you being here. Thank you so much for having me again. That is all we have for you today.

01:11:16.478 --> 01:11:24.238
Make sure you add FATOFF, FATON to your TBR list and make sure you check out the Kent test. We can

01:11:24.238 --> 01:11:31.438
all benefit from stronger media literacy skills and it is a great resource. Huge thanks to Clarkesia

01:11:31.438 --> 01:11:37.358
for joining me on the show today. I loved this conversation. Head to the show notes to get your

01:11:37.358 --> 01:11:43.198
copy of Fat Off, Fat On, to visit the Kent test and to check out the discount codes and offers

01:11:43.281 --> 01:11:48.878
from our sponsors. We have some really dope sponsors this month like Element, Aloe Moves,

01:11:48.878 --> 01:11:54.318
ZocDoc, and they're all hooking you up when you use our links and codes. So head to the show notes

01:11:54.318 --> 01:11:59.927
to grab those. Thank you so much for tuning in today and make sure you come back next week. I'm.

01:12:00.318 --> 01:12:04.554
Joined by my friend Chrissy King. She's coming back to the show to talk about her new book,

01:12:04.860 --> 01:12:09.278
The Body Liberation Project. We have a great conversation about the difference between

01:12:09.278 --> 01:12:14.690
body liberation and body positivity and how we can all feel more at home in our bodies.

01:12:15.023 --> 01:12:17.670
Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss it and I'll see you next week.

01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:30.798
Music.