How to Get Paid What You’re Worth: Salary Negotiation and Managing Career Pivots with Mandi Woodruff-Santos

salary negotiation tips from mandi woodruff-santos

For most people, work and money go hand-in-hand, and it’s hard to build wealth when we’re being underpaid. That’s why in today’s episode we’re talking about salary negotiation and using the skills you have to increase your pay with Mandi Woodruff-Santos.

Mandi Woodruff-Santos is an inclusive wealth-building advocate, career coach, and co-host of the popular award-winning podcast Brown Ambition. She’s a regular contributor to Yahoo Finance Live and her personal finance and career advice has also been featured on The Dr. Phil Show, The New York Times, CNBC, CNN, Business Insider, Essence, Teen Vogue, and U.S. News & World Report.

Mandi is a master negotiator who has helped thousands of women navigate career crossroads, plan their next move, and negotiate higher salaries. This episode is packed with gems and is like sitting down for a coaching session with Mandi.

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Salary Negotiation Tips:

  • How Mandi was able to 10x her net worth by quitting jobs.
  • Navigating career transitions when the economy is down.
  • How to negotiate a higher salary.
  • Other perks and benefits you can negotiate in addition to base salary.
  • How to use the skills you have to make more money.

Episode 158 Resources:

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Episode 158 Transcript

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Thank you for joining me today my name is Les I'm your host here at balanced black girl and I started balance black girl.

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Four years ago to create a dedicated space for us to be students of well-being and personal development.

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In a safe and inviting space and I'm happy you're here.

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So on balance black girl I produce episodes in series where we will cover a central topic or theme for a few weeks and our current theme is money.

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Abundance and financial wellness and we've covered everything from being mindful of how we spend our time to budgeting paying off debt investing crypto

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Financial Independence in relationships and more so if you haven't listened to the other episodes in the series make sure you do so because each of them has gems of information that are really designed to be actionable

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and approachable so that we can all be as well resource to as possible.

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But today we're talking about how most of us get money in the first place and that is through working.

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Most of us work to earn our primary income and how much money we make from our work has a direct impact on our personal bottom line

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So today we're talking about making career moves that lead to money moves with Mandy woodruff-santos.

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Mandi is an inclusive wealth-building Advocate career coach and co-host of the popular award-winning podcast brand ambition which she hosts

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with Tiffany the budget needs to Alicia I have to say brown ambition is actually one of my favorite podcasts and sources of financial education I've loved it for years if you like balanced black girl you will love Brown ambition so make sure you subscribe to their show

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Mandi is also a regular contributor to Yahoo finance live and

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her personal finance and career advice has also been featured on the Doctor Phil show The New York Times Business Insider Essence Teen Vogue and more Mandy

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knows her stuff she has 10x her own income and net worth through

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quitting which we talk about why quitting can be one of the most powerful things you can do to increase your earnings but she doesn't just have this knowledge she loves to share it that's why she's an incredible coach that's why she's an incredible facilitator in the financial education space

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I was so inspired talking to Mandy and hearing more about her story and hearing more about her advice and I'm really excited to get to share it with you as well

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so let's get into our conversation with Mandy
first I want to hear about what you learned from pulling your birth chart.

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Oh yeah so what did I learn well here's a funny thing I so I put in my birth chart actually my mom made me a baby book

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when I had my baby a couple of years ago so I know my exact date of my time of birth now because I had my little announcement in it so I could do the I could do the chart and what's funny is

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I did the chart and I.

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Was like everything made sense I'm a triple Leo in some ways like I think I had I look like I had a Stelio and Leo I don't remember which

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planets were in Leo or really what that means but I had listened to the episode of your show where you were talking about astrology and that's what sort of made me like do some Google's like me check on my

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what's my moon again I had forgotten and I got in a such a long long

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like the website that I went to was such a long report much of that I didn't understand but I really felt seeing I definitely did and then I got to the bottomless and it was like.

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My birth date I had accidentally put the wrong date I don't know I had put like two days after so then I went back and redid it.

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And now I don't believe any of it like it doesn't seem like me at hello no yeah I like my moon change from Capricorn to Aquarius and I'm just like oh throw it away I don't know I don't know who I am I'll look at it later

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but I'm trying to be I'm a Leo if that wasn't abundantly obvious and I kind of dabble in astrology but only when

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makes me feel better like saying I've only interested if like it something positive exactly what I mean yep so you know with the new moon in Leo and my

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not even barely understanding it I'm like oh it's like good it'll be good stuff for business and money and just keep going and it's going to be a good month hey you know I'm clearly not an expert but it's it's always fun.

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Dig a Little Deeper I feel like

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definitely sounds like we have a very similar approach to astrology because I'm super into it if it says something good and then if it doesn't I'm like Alice doesn't know what it's talking about I don't believe this doesn't I don't give it a yeah it's totally made up yeah

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but I feel super Leo most of the time

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my son's a Sagittarius and we're both fire signs and I was so excited that I had a little babies Edge yeah has been through cancer

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oh why me you know yeah the thing is you can't read your astrology matching like.

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Compatibility charts like when you're a Leo and a cancer because it's bad it's just like Doom you will never work

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it's not and it's challenging but we're making it work been together 10 years I do nothing the easy way that's the moral of the story

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but I'm very happy that now I have a little fire sign buddy

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my dad my baby yeah bring some more some more fire and Sagittarius I think is like the fieriest of the fire yes

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like exciting and like true Love's Travel and Adventure I love I'm just like projecting all of this onto him he's too

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mind you so he has a lot of time to develop his own personality but I'm just like yeah we're going to take so many trips together we're going to go on roller coasters and I don't know like all I just imagined myself

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when he's old enough to travel just like being that kind of mom who shows up wherever he is you know I was always jealous

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of kids whose parents could like show up when they were traveling anyway I love it I love it I'm sure that he will have some some adventurousness but he'll be he'll be excited to do those things with you.

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I hope so

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yeah so Mandy welcome to balance black girl I'm so excited to have you here you are the co-host of one of my personal favorite podcast Brown ambition so it's really exciting to get to have you on my show to talk about money.

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We're talking a lot about money it has serious but let's talk about money some more.

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Absolutely I'm here for it thank you for having me less I'm excited and congrats on the success of your show and what a wonderful community that you've built thank you thank you I mean I you know firsthand

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all that goes on behind the scenes to make that happen so I really appreciate that

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yes especially when you work in 925 yeah that was me with Brandon Vision until like last summer yeah

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absolutely I would love to start off by talking about your career trajectory I mean you've had an amazing story big part of your story is you like

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ten Xing your net worth through negotiating and strategically quitting

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I love your body of your messaging around strategically quitting jobs kind of quitting our way to success so can you walk us through that can you walk us through your career trajectory and how you got to where you are now

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yeah thousand percent and again I'm so happy to be here I'm a really good quitter.

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And I believe in the power of quitting and walking away from things which I think I don't know where it comes from but I never really had that belief that I needed to stay.

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In a situation out of loyalty or out of respect or out of

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I need to pay my dues we're just talking about our astrological signs and I'm just like I'm a Leo I like to be in charge and I like to lead and always from a place of like.

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Making things better and especially you know making things better for women of color and through my career

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to get the opportunities where I was in a position where I could have autonomy where I could lead and of course where I could earn more that required walking away I just couldn't stay put if I had stayed put so my backgrounds in journalism I studied print journalism and I graduated

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into the Great Recession and was quickly thrown out on my ass and laid off from a job and you know that kind of sparked my initial passion for learning more about finances so that I could so that I wasn't sort of naive about

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being laid off I knew that was a possibility because of course it was the recession but I did feel like I could have made some different choices in college that had prepared me for a time when I wasn't going to have an income

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saving my income investing my income and I felt really left out so that sparked my curiosity about all things personal finance and fortunately I was able to merge my two Passions.

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Journalism and finance when I was hired as a personal finance reporter.

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For sites like Business Insider and Yahoo finance but had I stayed and sort of paid my dues as a reporter it wasn't going to give me the ability to

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try different things you know try different skill sets lead teams I knew I had.

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A great leadership capability because I had done some of that on a volunteer basis.

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Yeah so I just I guess I'm just an impatient person so for impatience and ambitious

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and also I think because opportunities were coming to me that seemed really interesting and scary I just went for them and as I was going for them and taking risks I saw my my income just

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you know Skyrocket and toward the end of a 10-year period when I went back and tallied it up I had quit six times in ten years not to say that I had quit.

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Not I love that you said quit strategically I was always strategic about it

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and I believe everyone should be I wasn't quitting into nothingness I wasn't quitting and taking sabbaticals I was quitting for one of juicier better paying more exciting opportunity came along and I don't think that enough of us are

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educated and coached in a way that like normalizes that and shows you how to make a strategic decision

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about a new career opportunity and yeah so that's kind of been my thing silently my thing for 10 years.

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And cut to and I of course I had brought ambition which I launched seven years ago so as I was building my career I always had Brown ambition and it was my creative Outlet.

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So as I was becoming a leader I was moving further away from writing and creating content I was leading the teams of people who were leading the people doing the writing and content creation you know

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which was great was making that bag but I had Brown ambition always to like.

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Satisfy that part of me that wanted to create anyway so cut to about a year ago in the spring of 2021.

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I was in a situation where I had done my 6th quit and gotten a big raise and it was all very exciting

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and I thought you know this is going to be the opportunity for me for the next couple of years I knew I wanted to be have my own thing and.

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How my own business I wasn't sure what it was going to be at a certain point I was like I'm going to do a.

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A restaurant and it's going to be tailored to new moms because I had just had a baby you know but anyway so I was always entrepreneurial wasn't sure what it was going to be but I thought I'll go to this new job that sounds perfect it's been a couple of years and I'll be ready.

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And then it turned out it wasn't a perfect opportunity and I had to find a new path for myself and I thought carefully about it and

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going back to another nine to five.

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Situation it just didn't feel right I wasn't I was ready you know I just felt ready so I decided financially because of the.

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You know the decisions I've made over the past 10 years financially I could afford to actually leave and not have something lined up which was exciting and

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I felt like what the hell have I been investing and saving for If Not For a Moment Like This yes you know so I can walk away and.

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Take my next steps without having to keep anyone else's expectations in mind and to just try something new so what did I do last summer

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launch Mandy money

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and I've always been Mandy money on social but I gave I came up with a business around Mandy money and it's all around career and leadership development I wasn't sure if I would be.

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Any good at it obviously I've done it through Brown ambition but what I did is I

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started to offer free coaching sessions so I just like posted on IG and 200 women signed up and it was incredible I was doing free half hour coaching sessions until like January

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amazing at me we're going to get through those was committed and through those conversations the feedback wasn't extraordinary and it also.

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Coming up through Corporate America which you can probably relate to like I don't get to talk to black women everyday it's not a lot of us or at least it wasn't a lot of us where I was anyway

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and so it felt like it was really healing for me just to talk to women of color everyday about their professional Journeys and then to realize I can do this you know I love it and

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and I'm helping women and and being supportive and helping them find their New Path and anyway so

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been doing that for the past year and now I have a group coaching Community called Mandy money makers which launched in January based on all of that I had learned about the women I spoke to those 6 months last year

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through those fries coaching sessions and Mandy moneymakers is a an online community it's live coaching group coaching sessions for six weeks with women of color for women of color and it has been.

00:14:00.157 --> 00:14:05.039
Just wonderful just incredible yeah it's a very long story but

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that is where I'm at now great story and there's there's definitely more there that I want to I want to come back to I loved what you said at the beginning when you were talking about not

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feeling pressured to necessarily have loyalty to any one company or any one job and

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sounds like that quality really served you in being able to spot New Opportunities and knowing when it's time to leave to move on to something that is either a better opportunity or can compensate you better or you know is the next thing to do

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as you were describing that I was thinking about.

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How I know I was taught the opposite and I think a lot of us particularly black and brown women.

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Our kind of taught the opposite where it's like you get in somewhere.

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I feel lucky to be there you hold on to it like my first job I was working in Aerospace finance and I was there for like five years because I

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felt a lot of pressure oh I have something good I was also it was like the Great Recession

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don't go anywhere like don't move because there's nothing to be anywhere to go do you find the in

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coaching your clients and helping your community that you do have to help us kind of work through some of that resistance I think yes absolutely as women of color I think so often we are told be grateful.

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And I mean rightfully so there's plenty of Statistics that show

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it's a crap shoot for us in a lot of ways we're still learning on average like 60 cents to the dollar of white men you know were undervalued and corporate workspaces we're less likely to show up I mean you look at

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any organization and I guarantee you at the top 5% of the you know leadership.

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The company you're not going to see very many women of color people of color at all we have all these facts that tell us it's tough for us out there and my whole thing has always been.

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Okay but

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I'm going to create a different story for myself like those things can be true but not true for me and what I try to do is help women feel more empowered and More in charge that they feel like they can take those risks

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because I mean honestly if you look at the situation for us I completely understand why women are like no I'm just I'm good like I got my 401k I got on pay my bills I want to be grateful there's not really room for me to take risks the stakes are really high all of that I completely understand.

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But what I do through my work is really try to help women see there is a way to strategically do it that doesn't feel Reckless yeah you know and I'm all about

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creating a strong professional brand so that you can attract new opportunities to you so that you have options I think when you close yourself off to ever leaving your employer.

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When you close it off and you're not engaging with your network you're not posting on LinkedIn you're not telling anyone what you're up to you're not building a brand for yourself

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then you're not going to get opportunities you're not going to see as many options as soon as you start to

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you know like I say passively job search through actually engaging with your network and staying active and letting people know what you do

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and opportunities come to you and you see that there's other options and you slowly but surely start to feel more confident about entertaining them and then you have something real

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to compare.

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You know your current job too and I think that there's definitely too many women out there who are sort of telling themselves a story about oh well if I find something else it's not going to be as secure as as or I'll have to take a pay cut if I pivot

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but they haven't actually gotten a hard job offer to compare it to so I'm like forget all about what ifs and all of that let's at least

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put out that energy and do some things to attract more opportunities and then we'll have some actual facts to work with here and then maybe when you see that oh

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I can't make a lot more if I leave my company or oh.

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Maybe I there's other places that can also feel stable you know and feel even though I hate the word stability on it's not really a thing the other places can feel pretty secure you know so that's what's fun.

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For me is helping women just like at least kids some options you know what I mean yeah that's super helpful to look at okay

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what are the facts because I think we can imply a lot of things or we can oh someone our feelings but feelings aren't always fact.

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So getting all their data yeah the rallies for me I'm like I've been doing my therapy I know you have to like yeah it's a story that we tell ourselves and I mean

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so many women come to me and they're like I know this this isn't that I very gently ask okay where did you read that who told you that and they're like well.

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I guess just like me I guess just like I thought it or maybe it was a friend or maybe it was one article and I'm like so when you actually did an interview and you and you interview did they tell you that and they're like well I have an interview.

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I'm like okay so what we have our ideas but not fact for sure

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this episode is sponsored by my favorite Wellness app open.

00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:22.045
Open is a digital mindfulness platform combining breathwork meditation and movement and it is my go-to app to help me get centered when I need to reconnect with my breath

00:19:22.042 --> 00:19:32.443
one of my favorite meditations on open that I go back to time and time again is called embody self-love led by one of their instructors Ali who is an incredible guide.

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The meditation focuses on finding compassion for yourself and uses loving-kindness to deepen feelings of self-love.

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In addition to that class there are countless other meditations for any emotion you may be feeling as well as movement classes such as yoga and pilates.

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I love starting my morning with one of their meditations and yoga flows and then tapping back in to do breathwork in the afternoon when I need a little energy and to refocus.

00:20:13.661 --> 00:20:19.561
Plus on the podcast right now we're talking all about money and actually love doing a guided meditation

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before I sit down and go through my finances and check in with my money because it just puts me in a way better more calm more abundant headspace so I recommend trying that out.

00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:45.748
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so what are the other things that you mentioned when you were talking about your career trajectory and when you decided to go full-time into entrepreneurship was that realization of actually I've built a safety net for myself I've saved I'm invested

00:21:28.353 --> 00:21:31.390
I can you know I can catch myself if I take the leap

00:21:31.378 --> 00:21:41.193
can you walk us through that process of one preparation and how you kind of saved and invested in got to that point where you're comfortable and then to kind of the mindset.

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Part where it's like oh actually I have this resource and this is what it's for it's okay to tap into it if I need it.

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I'm asking asking for a friend because this is something I struggle with but I would love to hear how you navigated that.

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I give so many props to 24 year old Mandy she was such a gem like thank you girl thank you for getting your little 401k and putting her little 10% in it was only like three thousand dollars that first year but that Foundation

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starting to invest before I really understood everything about it and 24 you know in my mind I could have been doing that

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like I said through college like even when I was earning an income in high school and I felt the sense of urgency that like I got to catch up and

00:22:29.965 --> 00:22:41.454
people know about this stuff but I didn't so for me investing at an early age was the best investment I could have made it's not about waiting until you're perfect and you know everything

00:22:41.370 --> 00:22:50.024
it's just about okay deciding to start trying and to start doing something and because of that habit of investing and saving.

00:22:50.112 --> 00:22:59.423
A portion of my salary that I started when I was not earning that much no matter how much more I was earning as I said I'd 10x to my salary over the next 10 years.

00:22:59.492 --> 00:23:07.948
That doesn't necessarily mean that I thought was going to 10x my net worth or 10x my Assets in my savings and my investments I did that because I.

00:23:07.972 --> 00:23:17.067
Thoughtfully and intentionally carved out that amount of my salary that 10% that whatever it was some some years it was eight percent

00:23:16.956 --> 00:23:29.860
some it was 15% you know I would kind of fiddle with the percentages but I was always saving and setting aside and it was because of those choices that I made back then that I ended up in a place you know at 34.

00:23:29.866 --> 00:23:37.088
With a two-year-old with a mortgage with a husband a you know with responsibilities that I then had.

00:23:37.095 --> 00:23:45.515
Yes that Financial cushion cash in the bank and say and then Investments you know in my brokerage account that.

00:23:45.674 --> 00:23:55.417
Even if the cash in the bank was running low I could at least know okay well that money is working like it's in the slow cooker it's cooking and marinating and all of that but it in terms of like.

00:23:55.882 --> 00:23:59.387
Actually tapping into it I completely

00:23:59.339 --> 00:24:07.066
I understand it sucks like you become really attached to those dollars in your bank account it looks nice yes and as someone who

00:24:06.991 --> 00:24:15.915
I was raised by a single mom and had tons of financial insecurity growing up having that cushion was help me sleep at night

00:24:15.777 --> 00:24:21.146
and tapping into it and dipping into it substantially like I did because my life is not cheap

00:24:21.071 --> 00:24:32.029
it ain't cheap my mortgage is not cheap my daycare I live in New York okay I did not pick a cheap place to live and I sat down my financial planner I'm all about the facts right.

00:24:32.161 --> 00:24:45.137
So when my financial planner and I sat down last spring when I was kind of deciding on what I was going to do next she was like here's the minimum amount you need to earn a month is 10,000 dollars and you can do this.

00:24:45.260 --> 00:24:51.906
It was my financial planner who basically said like I don't know why you're not just like starting your own thing now like Helen.

00:24:52.507 --> 00:24:58.046
Okay but yeah can I but having that objective.

00:24:58.178 --> 00:25:06.247
You know voice from my financial planner kind of looking at the numbers and it was her also who highlighted for me that I had 10 x my net worth since

00:25:06.181 --> 00:25:15.969
you know in the past five years alone so having that objective eyes on my situation to make me feel more confident you know I really value that so

00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:21.812
if you're someone who's you're not sure like how much can this man how long can this money last me what can I afford.

00:25:21.836 --> 00:25:26.160
If I'm going to start a business on my own what's my minimum monthly goal

00:25:26.085 --> 00:25:35.540
you know I would suggest like talking to someone my financial planner is a fee-only planner which means when I have a meeting with her I pay a couple hundred dollars and that's it.

00:25:36.014 --> 00:25:41.977
You know I meet with her when I need to and when I'm not meeting with her I'm not paying for anything.

00:25:42.172 --> 00:25:48.801
And yeah she helped me get the confidence and then for me having that cushion it gave me the ability

00:25:48.654 --> 00:26:00.288
to do the free coaching for as long as I did probably wait longer than I should I mean 202 people is amazing I know thankfully not all 200 actually followed through but it was like a hundred and twenty something.

00:26:00.339 --> 00:26:01.872
You know that summer.

00:26:02.040 --> 00:26:11.306
I got to work you know I got to work doing the focus groups with that free coaching and trying to meet that ten thousand dollars a month goal

00:26:11.195 --> 00:26:21.947
that's that's sort of how I approach that decision hmm I'm sensing a theme facts looking at the facts looking at the numbers the hardware my astrological chart

00:26:21.791 --> 00:26:26.511
you definitely must have seen the Capricorn in there yeah

00:26:26.436 --> 00:26:36.143
I'm like I'm hearing there's got to be like some Capricorn or some Virgo in there for sure are Foreigner some Beyonce Vibes exactly exactly.

00:26:36.195 --> 00:26:44.048
We're seeing a lot of like headlines information in the media about this recession it's

00:26:43.874 --> 00:26:58.685
happening it's maybe it's coming it's looming we're seeing a lot of headlines about companies who are you know laying off or I know you actually did a tech talk recently about like rescinded offers where I was like

00:26:58.655 --> 00:27:06.904
that's the thing yeah yeah no my so what is important for people who are

00:27:06.856 --> 00:27:18.760
either looking for work or experiencing career transitions in this climate to know as they navigate that so I can feel like a really scary time to look for something new or to make a career change

00:27:18.739 --> 00:27:30.256
yes I think that for a lot of people the great reshuffling or great resignation whatever you want to call it that was happening during the pandemic it helped them overcome that little bit of fear.

00:27:30.343 --> 00:27:39.771
That was holding them back from being more risky or looking for new opportunities and because it broke down that fear people were making a lot of moves and you saw

00:27:39.580 --> 00:27:51.952
very normalized conversations around quitting and getting new opportunities and all of that which I was really excited about because I'm like yeah join me here it's nice at the same time now we're seeing okay

00:27:51.850 --> 00:27:58.307
how can you make strategic career decisions when the times are not so flush you know when things are a little bit dicey

00:27:58.106 --> 00:28:04.177
I like I said I have been quitting throughout my career I have survived a couple of recessions at.

00:28:04.192 --> 00:28:12.450
Point the first fact I think people need to realize is that this is a part of a normal economy a capitalist economy there is going to be lulls

00:28:12.231 --> 00:28:22.973
there's going to be more there will be more downturns in the future and we're not even in a proper recession right now technically as of this date were recording an early August is not a full-fledged recession.

00:28:23.196 --> 00:28:32.453
There's still a lot of job openings out there there's definitely downsizing layoffs hiring freezes you know these early symptoms.

00:28:32.477 --> 00:28:41.617
Potential of recession down the line and it's impacting people yes people are losing some people are losing their jobs one of my Mandy money makers just

00:28:41.551 --> 00:28:55.958
you know got in touch yesterday that she was laid off 90 days after joining a firm so it's real life but the fact is this will happen again so how are you going to best prepare yourself and that's where I come to the topic of professional resiliency one of the things that.

00:28:55.991 --> 00:29:06.391
I'm so glad that I focused on building early in my career was professional resiliency I'm not talking about finding a stable job I'm talking about creating your own inner job stability.

00:29:06.451 --> 00:29:13.512
So that no matter what is happening in the world you know you got you and by that I mean how do you create professional resiliency.

00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:20.282
Always staying invested and your skills and growing your skills and education I studied print journalism

00:29:20.225 --> 00:29:34.262
okay less like I literally studied magazines like that was a job for me and graduated into an economy that was like oh we don't care about paper anymore so I had to adapt you know I had to learn new skills.

00:29:34.287 --> 00:29:40.429
Search engine optimization how to write for an online audience how to do social media how to do video.

00:29:40.471 --> 00:29:48.945
I never liked the fact that I'm even in front of a microphone is hilarious to ten-year-old me because I was like deathly shy and anxious even College me.

00:29:49.050 --> 00:29:54.680
But I had to push myself to gain new skills that's number one number two is actually staying

00:29:54.668 --> 00:30:00.648
keeping your professional and personal relationships with colleagues warm yeah and I don't mean.

00:30:00.834 --> 00:30:10.118
I am an introvert I'm not the one who's like I'm the one who shows up late to the happy hour because the thought of sitting alone at the bar just like gives me all sorts of I'm working on it

00:30:09.998 --> 00:30:16.348
take yourself on solo date that's great but anyway that wasn't really my scene but still I would do it in my own way

00:30:16.327 --> 00:30:26.620
I would write thank you notes I would write emails to people individually I would check in on LinkedIn I would talk about the work that I was doing share it on LinkedIn share it with my network.

00:30:26.842 --> 00:30:30.230
I would go to professional development groups and make connections.

00:30:30.290 --> 00:30:43.238
So that helped people start to associate me in my industry and my Niche and as at the time business reporting and business content and personal finance content so how are you telling people in your network.

00:30:43.487 --> 00:30:51.709
Past colleagues current colleagues what you're up to and building that professional brand and those two things alone will help

00:30:51.616 --> 00:31:01.990
for example if there is a downturn and if you're telling people hey I've been laid off or you know things are a little dicey you're more likely to get referrals or get people wanting to help you or.

00:31:02.077 --> 00:31:08.804
You're more likely to get like email saying hey I saw this job and I thought of you or hey I heard someone's hiring and I thought of you

00:31:08.765 --> 00:31:22.992
that's the secret sauce right there to professional resilience and I know I said I quit six times in 10 years but I only applied to one of those new jobs that I got once wow it was always from the majority of time it was from

00:31:22.908 --> 00:31:32.948
interest coming to me usually via LinkedIn or via email from someone who heard about me from somewhere or saw my work from somewhere so that is really really crucial.

00:31:32.954 --> 00:31:38.962
I know that things are dicey right now but it's not going to be the only time they're going to be dicey so what can you control.

00:31:39.148 --> 00:31:45.047
And these are things that I'm talking about right now that you actually can control so that you yourself

00:31:44.981 --> 00:31:54.022
become your own stability and we're not expecting an employer who's never going to be looking out for anyone else but their own bottom line right or their shareholders maybe yep.

00:31:54.038 --> 00:32:08.237
To be that stability for us you know it's a toxic relationship in that case you can't look we have to own our own power mmm-hmm yes yes professional resiliency that is really really good that.

00:32:08.252 --> 00:32:17.798
Really struck a chord with me of those kind of recession-proof things which connections being the top of that and

00:32:17.606 --> 00:32:31.967
being ready to Pivot and take on new skills is really really important and something that I know in my career I've felt a lot of resistance around and I've had to kind of challenge myself to push through that if thinking well I can't do that or I don't know how to do that

00:32:31.847 --> 00:32:41.482
it's like we can always learn I didn't know how to podcast for the first several decades of my life and we learned how to do that so we can learn how to do these other things too.

00:32:41.894 --> 00:32:48.855
Yeah and having this creative space where you can build your own audience this is professional resilience for you I feel resilient.

00:32:48.916 --> 00:32:58.461
With brown ambition you know having Brown ambition now it took us awhile to make some money and to actually take money from the show that we had earned

00:32:58.314 --> 00:33:06.797
but it's a form of income so you know if if anything else were to happen Brown ambition is one of those levers that I could lean on

00:33:06.749 --> 00:33:14.899
you know in a time where maybe I lost a source of income somewhere else and as an entrepreneur now I 1000%.

00:33:14.941 --> 00:33:23.343
Think about that all the time you know how am I diversifying the streams of income that Mandy money ink is leaning on so that I'm not.

00:33:23.475 --> 00:33:35.379
Overly Reliant upon anyone and if something were to scale back that I wouldn't be like struggling you know and freaking out and I'm still a newbie I'm still a baby entrepreneur you know doing this.

00:33:35.583 --> 00:33:40.087
Only for the past year in a bit of change but that has given me a lot of.

00:33:40.228 --> 00:33:50.044
Peace so that I can sleep at night because I am my own I have my own employer now I do miss those bonuses those were nice yes.

00:33:50.149 --> 00:33:54.284
Definitely I know that's something I'm having a hard time letting go of

00:33:54.254 --> 00:34:05.483
for sure are you and you're in Tech though they got the golden handcuffs you got the good good I know I do I got back I got the rsu's got the you know there's definitely a sensitive

00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:19.373
I love it there are incentives but I'll tell you when I there's something there that did happen like you hear that from business owners and entrepreneurs like when you're owning your own business you realize a sky is the limit

00:34:19.289 --> 00:34:28.591
and when you're a fully employed you know you get the higher and higher and higher salaries and that's great but that's really like and maybe you can push the limit with.

00:34:28.886 --> 00:34:32.697
Rewards like stock grants and bonuses and things like that but

00:34:32.604 --> 00:34:46.191
you know the salary is the salary and it kind of limits you in a way I'm all for it though I did really well in 925 life but I will say as an entrepreneur as I think we focus a lot on how scary it is to.

00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:53.636
Have to create your own income every month and what I'm trying to do is shift my mindset to the possibilities definitely you know.

00:34:53.723 --> 00:34:57.867
That I could be making money multiples of what I was making before.

00:34:58.035 --> 00:35:05.195
It's not happening yet but maybe it will in the future yeah it shows you what's possible which.

00:35:05.399 --> 00:35:16.637
Truly could be anything even if it comes in different forms or in different timing or if it's not you know every two weeks to begin Orville's like we're used to it still absolutely possible

00:35:16.616 --> 00:35:22.506
yes absolutely and talking a little bit about skills I would love to

00:35:22.485 --> 00:35:37.018
kind of walk through maybe some of the ways that people can uncover skills that they have that can be marketable really great if they're either looking for a new role or looking to increase their income something that I've experienced through side hustling and through creating content.

00:35:37.150 --> 00:35:46.326
Is that I found that it's actually really helped me in my career I had a very similar trajectory to you where I went to school wanted to be a journalist also great.

00:35:46.332 --> 00:35:51.871
Especially I was like oh yeah that's not going to happen so let me take this Finance job because this is what

00:35:51.743 --> 00:36:08.355
there and then eventually moved into content marketing but the only reason why I was able to get marketing jobs was because of the experience I got creating content on my own that's what kind of qualified me to meet that career pivot so for people who are either trying to identify skills or

00:36:08.181 --> 00:36:13.054
learn new skills how do you recommend they kind of navigate that space

00:36:13.006 --> 00:36:22.488
we really do have so much parallel I would not have gotten that job as a personal finance reporter had I not had a Blog that I started it was about biking

00:36:22.449 --> 00:36:31.977
New York City the bike rider so so creative but that was my way of proving that I could write for the internet

00:36:31.848 --> 00:36:43.410
yeah you know and I had a Blog and that's that was my samples because the job that I had you know before that I wasn't able to write because I took whatever would have me and it wasn't a writing job after I was laid off anyway

00:36:43.290 --> 00:36:49.261
yeah excellent question so there are a lot of free resources online so if

00:36:49.177 --> 00:36:58.578
I mean I'm a huge fan of like YouTube University if you want to just get a baseline understanding of some skills I work with clients who perhaps

00:36:58.575 --> 00:37:02.359
you know there are a data analyst and there's a new kind of software that they're seeing.

00:37:02.428 --> 00:37:11.398
That's becoming more popular or they're interviewing and they're hearing from recruiters like oh are you well-versed in this particular software that's a really easy

00:37:11.260 --> 00:37:20.652
a line to draw between point a and point B okay I gotta learn about the software if I want to be competitive and then it's about so how do I get that can you take any free courses online

00:37:20.577 --> 00:37:28.331
LinkedIn learning can be a great source I have a partner I don't get paid for saying this but General Assembly that offers a lot of their online

00:37:28.301 --> 00:37:31.553
Learning Academy online learning platform.

00:37:31.560 --> 00:37:45.822
For people looking to gain skills and Tack and they offer a lot of free workshops you can create your own opportunities for growth like creativity for example if you want to you know get some writing experience you can start with blogging right on medium or start your own blog.

00:37:45.828 --> 00:37:51.412
You can start a podcast with very few resources and I taught myself I'm sure like you did.

00:37:51.446 --> 00:38:06.131
From youtubing and figuring it out as I went along kind of making mistakes and talking to people who had been doing it and kind of getting their insights I think it's important to to use the resources that you have so if you're currently employed.

00:38:06.219 --> 00:38:11.407
Your employer should be investing in your skills it's going to make you better.

00:38:11.521 --> 00:38:25.414
And it's going to help retain Talent so I hope that there's opportunities at your company to get reimbursed like if you want to take a course you don't have to go back to school and get a whole degree in a lot of cases maybe they can pay for a certificate or they can

00:38:25.366 --> 00:38:29.789
I remember one of the Investments that my company made a me was you know a

00:38:29.615 --> 00:38:39.863
a couple thousand dollars so I could go to a leadership training and development will said Academy it was just a program for a week a week long leadership development

00:38:39.734 --> 00:38:48.073
of course that I took because they didn't have a lot of infrastructure for a young leader at the company I was at and I wanted more.

00:38:48.115 --> 00:38:55.779
I wanted more to grow in that area so I found the program I pitched it to them I made my case and they were like cool.

00:38:55.956 --> 00:39:00.667
Will fund that so take advantage of those resources it's really about like.

00:39:00.763 --> 00:39:15.197
Staying in tune with your specific industry your Niche what are you seeing the commonalities of people getting new opportunities and getting paid a lot more and then how can you use the resources that you have to then gain those skills

00:39:15.185 --> 00:39:21.120
what's trickier is people and I've seen this to like social media I loves it

00:39:21.063 --> 00:39:33.066
like we need it right it's great so we reach our audience how we do a lot of free content right you're not paying for this podcast we don't charge her Brown ambition so I love social media and all that but I think it can at this time.

00:39:33.225 --> 00:39:43.095
We go on Tick-Tock and all of a sudden it's like oh I saw this Tick-Tock about becoming an engineer and 0 as well as Tick-Tock about having a Blog I saw a stick out Tick-Tock about being an influencer in like

00:39:42.957 --> 00:39:51.143
moving in all these different directions and oh I could be a social media manager and you know and there's all these different options and I think people are like

00:39:51.032 --> 00:39:53.681
a little overwhelmed and then they start

00:39:53.580 --> 00:40:03.188
forgetting that it's really about what do you want to do what are your talents and how can that translate into the right thing to do and.

00:40:03.464 --> 00:40:08.535
You know you don't want to be in a situation where you're just following the bright shiny object.

00:40:08.541 --> 00:40:15.332
In a way to build wealth but you're actually starting with what do I actually want to do and what I'm actually good at.

00:40:15.941 --> 00:40:24.352
At the core of me has always been storytelling and service storytelling and service and helping people and

00:40:24.304 --> 00:40:37.432
listen I am not made for engineering Tech analysis and even that stuff spreadsheets I don't love them except for packing lists I do love them for that but you know like I know my strengths and stuff.

00:40:37.484 --> 00:40:44.580
And I think there's a lot of power and just saying okay this is what I don't like and here's what I do like I'm just going to like Focus.

00:40:44.802 --> 00:40:49.360
On my own Journey my own path and seeing how I can build upon that.

00:40:49.889 --> 00:41:00.937
Yeah yeah but learning how to trust yourself which is definitely challenging with the amount of content and information that we have available to take in because.

00:41:01.124 --> 00:41:05.619
It's so overwhelming Tick-Tock makes me want to switch off their cubs

00:41:05.472 --> 00:41:17.340
every other video I know but that's what it's about it's about self trust one of the best ways I develop trust in myself was one having parents who really did not they were not involved in my schooling I mean they were but they were never like.

00:41:17.373 --> 00:41:22.570
They weren't breathing down my neck what are you studying what are you doing let me make decisions for you.

00:41:22.657 --> 00:41:37.379
I talked about oh you know I wasn't really raised with financial knowledge and I wish my parents had given me some sometimes I think back and I'm like because they hadn't I figured it out on my own and that for me I saw my own work resulting in.

00:41:37.484 --> 00:41:42.879
You know greater Financial gains and it gave me more confidence in myself yeah and.

00:41:43.029 --> 00:41:47.794
And flinging myself into new situations like after school.

00:41:47.962 --> 00:41:58.282
Deciding to turn down a 9 to 5 job offer that I had in travel instead and put myself in new places and learn that I could survive and building that

00:41:58.144 --> 00:42:07.455
self-trust is so crucial and you're absolutely right that's really at the core of it that you believe that you know what you're good at and you know that.

00:42:07.578 --> 00:42:16.781
When you put effort and time into something that you want to do that you'll be able to succeed at it and that helps you engage with social media in a way that's not like.

00:42:17.382 --> 00:42:22.390
You can enjoy it it's stories people are telling you what happened to them and you're not.

00:42:22.594 --> 00:42:31.707
So you know insecure about your abilities and where you're heading that you're like oh should I be doing that we're like oh that sounds good I'll go there.

00:42:32.073 --> 00:42:35.056
That's where it gets like really exhausting and overwhelming.

00:42:35.548 --> 00:42:42.375
Oh absolutely lately I've been thinking about as I approached like my own consumption of content.

00:42:42.561 --> 00:42:56.751
I tell myself like be harder to influence I want to be harder to influence I want other people to be harder to influence as well like we're firmly rooted and and who we are that it's more difficult to influence us

00:42:56.587 --> 00:43:06.555
just something I like to think about it doesn't help my work as an influencer but I know but the thing is like there's a difference I would say like it's important

00:43:06.552 --> 00:43:11.542
I think with ideas and new ideas and different believes we should all be open to hearing those right

00:43:11.512 --> 00:43:23.875
I would say some people are like need to be influenced don't like less stubborn about their belief systems and things like that but I know II hundred percent I see what you're saying and it's about.

00:43:24.125 --> 00:43:28.700
Being able to see other people's Journeys and it's that story you tell yourself like oh.

00:43:28.941 --> 00:43:34.264
That's their Journey I'm happy for them you know and just moving on and it's a it's a work

00:43:34.180 --> 00:43:48.677
in progress they need like some sort of before you get on social media they should do some sort of like mindset coaching everyone should get it around the age of 11 or whatever here's how you can do this in a healthy way it's a constant struggle for sure

00:43:48.674 --> 00:43:52.493
absolutely preparing us to use the internet.

00:43:52.590 --> 00:44:00.532
So I would love to talk a little bit about negotiation and salary negotiation whether we are.

00:44:00.701 --> 00:44:11.551
Taking a new role and we're negotiating a salary or maybe if we are in a role that we're happy and we want to stay in but we want to ask our manager for more money what that can look like as well I'm.

00:44:11.693 --> 00:44:20.571
I know that I find it salary negotiation really scary don't want to speak for anybody else but how can we make that.

00:44:20.596 --> 00:44:21.949
Less scary

00:44:21.865 --> 00:44:34.165
do it again and again and again and it gets less scary it doesn't ever the thing is it's never not going to be scary less like for me I've negotiated a lot of salaries I help people negotiate in my work as a coach.

00:44:34.198 --> 00:44:47.939
It's always stressful it just is yeah you know and I guess it's like that little rush that I like but I think for like liberating yourself from the idea that it's ever not supposed to be uncomfortable and that is normal to have that

00:44:47.837 --> 00:44:49.208
it's just about.

00:44:49.232 --> 00:44:58.390
Recognizing that this is going to be uncomfortable but I'm going to do the thing anyway because the goal the outcome is worth it right and with anything if you so I'm a big fan of

00:44:58.216 --> 00:45:13.037
negotiating when the stakes are low and when Bi-Lo I mean negotiating in your early career asking for more even at your first entry level job after college or during college just ask for more and test the waters and if you want more baby steps than that.

00:45:13.133 --> 00:45:18.690
Like some people get really stressed about just sending an order back to the kitchen at a restaurant that is wrong

00:45:18.687 --> 00:45:31.456
shout out to my dad who would send back his french fries at Wendy's if they were not the proper temperature like I grew up in an environment where like oh it's not what I paid for then I'm returning it you know and I think that.

00:45:31.489 --> 00:45:39.567
Just so small actions of asking for something and getting what you want help build that confidence so when the stakes are much higher

00:45:39.465 --> 00:45:47.588
so let's say you're going into my favorite situation which is a brand new job opportunity so you're currently employed you're negotiating a new offer

00:45:47.477 --> 00:45:54.780
this is the time when you're probably not going to ever have as much leverage because that company knows you're employed they know you're taken

00:45:54.688 --> 00:45:59.452
they have to woo you they have to seduce you and get you

00:45:59.306 --> 00:46:07.357
to come over to their side right so they're going to be more willing to entertain higher compensation like higher salary

00:46:07.237 --> 00:46:17.466
you know sign-on bonuses Equity grants things are going to tempt you paying for professional development for example if you tell them my employer right now is covering

00:46:17.355 --> 00:46:24.290
my tuition or they're paying for an executive coach for me executive coach for me you know using that and bringing that to the table.

00:46:24.341 --> 00:46:34.021
It's harder not impossible but it's harder to negotiate for more pay when you're currently working for a company and you don't have any outside offers because then it's really about.

00:46:34.315 --> 00:46:39.288
You have to like of course you had to be a stellar employee but at the same time they have to.

00:46:39.465 --> 00:46:48.056
Be really benevolent and just want to give you more money because they really value you which is fine but if you're not giving companies.

00:46:48.116 --> 00:46:54.186
You know a real incentive or you don't have a lot of Leverage in the form of another job offer things can go a lot slower

00:46:54.165 --> 00:47:06.105
it may take you may have to wait until that annual review you know six months down the line so that's why I'm a huge fan of abl always be looking and taking job interviews even if you're not a hundred percent

00:47:06.012 --> 00:47:10.967
interested in jumping because that's going to give you leverage in those moments.

00:47:11.126 --> 00:47:26.000
Plus when you get those other opportunities and this is core to negotiating when you're interviewing and you're getting through those early stages and finding out what the budget is for the role you are investing like your understanding your own value

00:47:25.862 --> 00:47:29.979
in the current market so think of yourself like a home

00:47:29.877 --> 00:47:44.842
you know on your block and how the demand for housing right now is driving housing prices up right similar to it may be similar in your industry or your specific skillset in your Niche and if you've been somewhere for a few years now

00:47:44.740 --> 00:47:52.503
and there's increased demand for people with your skill set chances are they're paying a lot more for people in your position now than what you were paid.

00:47:52.590 --> 00:48:06.457
You know when you were hired so interviewing can help you stay aware of your own value and going into a negotiation understanding your value and a salary basis will give you all the more confidence to ask for what.

00:48:06.904 --> 00:48:14.559
You know you're asking for in the first place which is one of the first questions I get is like how do I know what to ask for and.

00:48:14.673 --> 00:48:26.649
I'm happy to talk about that if you want yeah that'd be great understanding what to ask for yeah so my favorite sources are humans so if you know people in your network who have a line of sight into hiring.

00:48:26.709 --> 00:48:36.974
And they have been and you know at the table negotiating salaries from like a hiring manager maybe in your network or someone who is privy to that kind of information asking them like

00:48:36.845 --> 00:48:47.615
hey what are you seeing people with my skill set coming in at what do you think I can expect and not just on a salary basis but what types of other incentives are you saying being offered

00:48:47.495 --> 00:48:55.186
the signing bonus is the thing for this role you know are it's flexible work a thing those types of things so ask other people.

00:48:55.291 --> 00:49:05.196
I love love telling people to reach out to former colleagues who have since who have left recently like in the last year they've left a company and gone somewhere else

00:49:05.022 --> 00:49:19.996
people love to brag when they get a new job with higher pay they kind of like it like to tell their former colleague yeah you're still there well you know I'm thinking 20 came with a little more likely I think to share that so I would ask

00:49:19.894 --> 00:49:25.784
colleagues who've left recently to see what it is that they're earning especially if like they're doing similar work to you

00:49:25.674 --> 00:49:32.059
those are my two favorite and job interviewing 's job interviews are exceptional because.

00:49:32.083 --> 00:49:38.171
Yeah you can easily ask a recruiter hey what's your budget for this role let's not beat around the bush and

00:49:38.106 --> 00:49:47.003
get an idea of your of your value there and then of course like you have your glass doors and your salary and like that's fine but nothing beats.

00:49:47.009 --> 00:49:56.338
Like that human the human element and like actually getting from a trusted Source some Intel about your current worth yeah absolutely

00:49:56.254 --> 00:50:08.815
and I know I've definitely had like screenings with recruiters where they asked me what my salary expectations are and then I want to be like well what's your budget because I'm not sure how what are you working with us

00:50:08.741 --> 00:50:12.749
yeah is it okay to ask that when they ask that question.

00:50:12.783 --> 00:50:23.426
Yeah thousand percent I would always recommend to deflect that type of question is really annoying you know well you're in California now and I'm in New York and aren't these both salary transparency states were now

00:50:23.405 --> 00:50:25.119
companies have to put the

00:50:25.053 --> 00:50:33.455
salary on the job description which is helpful it sucks because the people with the least amount of power you know are being asked to give them a number

00:50:33.416 --> 00:50:35.480
you know and it's just

00:50:35.378 --> 00:50:43.546
annoying because when recruiters do that they're like well I know what our budget is but I don't want to tell you you tell me what and I'll tell you if it's in line with our budget

00:50:43.372 --> 00:50:46.049
and it's just this cat and mouse dance that

00:50:45.866 --> 00:50:57.149
benefits the employer and not the job Seeker so yes you can say you know actually I would like to learn more about the role before discussing salary but if you have a budget I'd love to know

00:50:57.002 --> 00:51:03.909
and you can just say I'm not comfortable disclosing I'm not comfortable giving a range you know because this is a new

00:51:03.807 --> 00:51:10.130
this is a new role or the role that I'm in now is is not

00:51:09.983 --> 00:51:20.059
quite as similar to this rule it's you know this rule has more responsibilities more duties Etc I'd love to know your budget you can also a lot of people say well it's often.

00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:31.978
A question on like an online application while they'll ask you to like just input your salary expectations and you can't go to the next screen until you've put something in you can put the number zero zero is a number.

00:51:31.984 --> 00:51:40.378
You can put n a whatever it is you can put $1 just have something there but in a negotiation.

00:51:40.789 --> 00:51:50.658
If you've ever sort of like been to an outdoor market and you've sat there one of my favorite tactics to use to get a price decrease is just silence.

00:51:50.943 --> 00:52:01.155
Just kind of like and lingering longer than like to annoy them because it was like get out of my way yeah and so sometimes silence can be.

00:52:01.233 --> 00:52:10.922
Your friend in a negotiation tell me your budget and then just like what the awkward are fill up it's a human being on the other end.

00:52:11.009 --> 00:52:22.832
And sometimes they're just going to fill that silence within with information you know so don't be afraid to just say I'd love to know your budget yeah and maybe be the first person to ask especially if it's a phone screen why not

00:52:22.811 --> 00:52:34.337
such good advice love the deflection because I always worry and like okay if I say a number am I going to Lobo myself you know or am I going to be held to that if they're able to offer more.

00:52:34.442 --> 00:52:37.218
So yeah that's that's really good advice.

00:52:37.548 --> 00:52:44.473
Mandi we've covered so much this has been so helpful like a career development.

00:52:44.525 --> 00:52:58.706
Masterclass thank you so much for joining us today so how can our listeners find you how can they work with you be part of the Mandy money Community how can they stay in touch.

00:52:58.766 --> 00:53:10.580
Absolutely so my fourth cohort of 2022 applications are open if you want to become a Mandy moneymaker be part of my group coaching Community you can go to Mandy though Mandy with an i

00:53:10.424 --> 00:53:19.186
shout out to my mom for making things complicated for me and he was Mandy I'm also made money on all social media I do a lot of

00:53:19.066 --> 00:53:27.486
free educational content I host free webinars you know every once in awhile so follow me on IG to always stay in tuned and I have what I love

00:53:27.358 --> 00:53:36.300
as a writer I started a Weekly Newsletter so I write just a career in sight once a week so if you go to Mandy you want to sign up for my newsletter

00:53:36.279 --> 00:53:40.323
I send out career advice and little tidbits every Sunday evening

00:53:40.267 --> 00:53:49.767
so as you're heading into your work week you get a little source of inspiration but I'd love to hear from you guys and thank you so much less for sharing your platform with me it's been

00:53:49.683 --> 00:53:51.711
a pleasure to get to know you more and.

00:53:52.069 --> 00:54:01.857
Congrats on all the success to thank you so much and thank you for being here I truly learned so much from this conversation and I know our community will.

00:54:02.133 --> 00:54:04.558
As well so thank you for all that you do Mandy.

00:54:05.068 --> 00:54:15.792
Prom I'm telling you talking to Mandy just makes me want to go out and make money moves it makes me want to go to work on Monday and.

00:54:15.988 --> 00:54:24.858
Pound the table and ask for more money I probably won't won't do that but it makes me want to and I hope this episode did that for you as well.

00:54:25.062 --> 00:54:31.933
Head to the show notes to follow Mandy subscribe to the brown ambition podcast and join her Mandy money-makers community.

00:54:32.201 --> 00:54:40.837
Huge thanks to our amazing sponsors who hook us up with generous discount codes and offers so that we can keep more of our coin while we enjoy our favorite products.

00:54:40.852 --> 00:54:45.014
So make sure you check the show notes to see our latest offers.

00:54:45.524 --> 00:54:53.035
Next week we're wrapping up the money and abundance series with an important conversation about healing from money trauma and navigating the black

00:54:52.951 --> 00:54:56.654
tax probably the most important

00:54:56.579 --> 00:55:07.457
subject matter of this series in that we've covered on the podcast to date so you're going to want to tune in to that one as soon as it drops so I will see you back here next week.



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